Wilson Sabrina and 300dr

At a local show last year, they were using the Sabrinas, powered by a 272/xps/250DR combo & overall it was a pretty decent sounding setup.  Biggest issue was the bottom end was overpowering the room but all things considered the bass was still relatively tuneful.  Would think a 300DR wouldn't have any issues. 

Lars,

I add my two cents but as usual I won't be able to be concise, so please feel free to skip my post.

Contrary to what many believe – that speakers have to be as neutral as possible and, being at the end of the audio chain (which is not completely true, since the room comes after them), are only expected to transmit what they have been fed with, also depending of how they interact with space – I think that speaker systems, actually 'sounding', make the strongest connection with our psyche, establishing the closest relationship with our inner taste with sound.

So, in my opinion (and almost everybody's experience) choosing speakers is a long, demanding and costly matter, unless you let someone else (the press, a forum, a dealer, your own budget or some superficial, erroneous convictions) decide for you. I think I have listened to almost all of the speakers mentioned in this thread, some of them in my own living room: Marten Design Miles II and Monks, rega RS7s, Ovator S-400, Allaes, Credo, SBLs, n-Sats, Arivas, Acoustic Research, PMCs, maybe a few more; and to all of the current Wilsons and most Magicos, up to a Q-something, a big black aluminium coffin costing the like of €180,000, in a friend's audio store.

The fact that after a ten years' rollercoaster of experiments I have settled for my fifth pair of n-Sats doesn't tell much about their quality, but just that they work with my room and my taste. They have limits, but with them I don't get bored. So far, avoiding boredom is the best I can expect from any stereo system.

For what is worth, I would take Wilson over Magico any moment: I have heard the last Yvette with DCS front end and Dan D'Agostino pre and mono blocks, and in terms of coherence, sound stage, likelihood, I think that it is as good as it gets; and the Sabrina are extremely enjoyable, like supercharged Harbeths, with a very rich, dense, tuneful midrange coming towards you, very engaging.

The NAP300 struck me as almost almighty: I've heard it drive the Canton K3 and K7, the Sonus Faber Amati, Magico S3s, S-400s, Harbeth M30.1s and it always sounded the same: powerful, rich in deep and controlled bass, extremely coherent and with very good soundstage, never harsh; a definitive amp. The Sabrina and the 300 could do a wonderful marriage, providing the room is not too 'live' (the Sabrina are a little exuberant, but what a soundstage..) and that you simply love the sound – that that is your voice.

Quality on paper is not very significant. There must be a voice, somewhere, that you love: if that is the NAP300/Sabrina's, good for you. They are examples of splendid audio engineering.

Best with your quest

Max

Max,

I know a guy who change his Wilson Sasha to Magico S5 and never look back ....

Lars,

One of the weak point of Wilson's is that they need some space to work properly.  Please take a look how dealers presents them.

Always min. 2 m from back wall and similar from side walls. 

Magico S3 are sealed boxes so you can put them closer to walls ...

Additionally bass from S3 will be more controlled, related to a point and multilayered.

You will not get such quality bass from Wilson's.

The most will depends on your individual preferences so if your dealer has Magico and Wilson you can simply check what do you prefer.

Please let us know your opinion after such interesting comparison.

Piotr

Hi massimo and piotr

many thanks for sharing your thoughts!

massimo, i am fully with you, finding the right speaker is very personal and its an exciting journey. My own 'n-sats' had for long been humble snell e3 and only after many homedemos, did I find something better to me in kudos.

Now i am in the family lifestage, and find myself facing many know-out factors to find a speaker that really delivers great music play in our now larger home, eg

1. Wife-filter: form, height, color - many models no-go as not in white, more than 1,1, and look very weird for non-hifi people

2. Kids-filter: not too sensitive, needs grills on, good with a speaker base as a bumber for indoor biking

3. Positioning: needs to work quite close to wall and being unfuzzy, as limited placement options, ie bottom-fired ports best and supports 60 cm from wall to front baffle

4. Great with 300dr, ie load works

5. Plays wonderful music, but with larger scale than current speakers, ie very keen on 8" bass and 2/3-way and of course great built

I have been surpriced actually about how few speakers make it through these knock out factors, and currently have ART as frontrunner to try out. I would even say that price is much less of a factor, and I am willing to pay a premium, if can get wonderful replay under all of these conditions.

linking back to my "n-sats", the humble snells, i was very entrigued by a story from derek at ART that they before making speakers had a pair of snell e's gifted from snell, and it provided some early inspiration to they design approach, eg paper cones/seas drivers/wide frontbaffle. Who knows, maybe they work wonders and i will have some returning to the roots also like you.

i truly find this forum priceless in the experience sharing, and it has allowed me to get to a few real options. Naturally, I will rely on my own ears and emotional connection in the end :-)

thanks for sharing your journey!

br Lars

Lars,

thanks for your exhaustive reply. I have considered your factors, and I could add this (but nothing you haven't thought of already!):

Wife-filter: very difficult. My wife never had an issue with any of the speakers I brought home on aesthetic grounds but objected only to the Ovators, that I find beautiful!

Kids-filter: The only 'safe' speaker that comes to my mind is the Ovator itself, with its metal grilles; I am sure a number of other designs feature such grilles, but the only ones that come to my mind now are the piano black n-Sats... But, if I remember correctly, the ARTs too have 'special' grilles.

Positioning: again, the Ovator and, for instance, the new Canton K series, that I heard with a NAP300 (in two versions, the 3K – around €10,000 – and the 7K, around 4,800) and that sounded magnificent, as I wrote here, with bass, scale, homogeneity and a very detailed but 'relaxed' sound, never tiring. I once was interested in the ARTs myself, and even had a pleasant conversation over the phone with Derek but never got to make a decision; they must be beautiful and beautifully made, but a tad expensive for me. The Cantons have down firing ports, and apparently no issue with bass.

Points 4. and 5.: The Cantons, undoubtedly. But if you have Wilsons in mind, please consider them and try to have a demo. Wilsons seem to posses that special factor that makes an audio product stick to your memory and imagination.

Best,

Max

Thanks Max,

pulled the trigger for a pair of ARTs custom-made for above factors for trial home-demo today, so journey begins - so curious about the next experienxe :-)

its interesting with the ovators, i thought they were discontinued but still on the naim web

have a great weekend

lars

My dealer will be lending me a pair of Sabrinas to try at home next week. It'll be in a smallish room (12' by 16' - apologies for the imperial measurements) on the end of a 500 system. I think they said they use them 70cm out from the wall in their demo room. I'll let you know how it all goes.

My dealer delivered the Sabrinas yesterday evening. We set them up with only about 35cm from the back wall and toed in so that you cannot see the side wall of the speaker.

They do sound very pleasant. Vocals are particularly good and real. There are no treble nasties and you could listen to these all day. Bass is weighty but certain bass notes do boom, I'm sure related to the close proximity (nearness) to the rear wall. They also sound very good when you're listening from outside the room too. Classic FM sounded really quite tuneful.

Good dynamics with a lively sound that is not in your face. My current speakers are Tannoy TD8s so that's what I'm comparing them against. Positioning needs to be optimised yet to control the bass. All in all, they are a very pleasant listen, a very natural sound. The volume control is a bit higher than with the Tannoys as they are not so efficient. However the sound does not harden up with increasing volume. I would conclude that a 500 amp can handle them without any issues. Cannot comment on a 300.

By all accounts (well one actually) they are going up in price today from an already expensive £17,000 to who knows what. Probably related to the devaluation of the pound I'll be bound.

Best etc.,

Ghetto Yout'.

Lars when had a nap300/nac252 set up I always had this niggle that it wasn't giving my shahinian obelisk mk2 speakers the current they truley needed (drop to 2ohm at times). I eventually sort an alternative and as it happens it's a danish make.. vitus!

Since moving over to vitus I can honestly say current is not longer a problem nor is uncontrolled bass. The dynamic range has improved, Prat is still there in spades and the subtle nuances of the music that I play is more evident.

As a Dane you owe it to yourself to consider vitus.

Hi knipester,

good push, never heard vitus, but proud of the strong danish tradition and players.

i really like the 300dr so i take the route of finding a great match to it. Waiting to homedemo a speaker from ART.

Br Lars

Only ever heard Art alnico 8.3 and they were very good albeheit quite big

Looking forward - am getting 8.3 in the compact version so hopefully not too intimidating :-)

Hi Lars,
Happy to help if you have any questions about the ART Alnico 8.3 Signature.   I also happen to have a pair...
Best regards, FT

Hi FT, absolutely will be in touch. Also signature version that is being built for me! Would be keen on setup tips etc. Many thx for ur advice thus far, br Lars

Last, it sounds like you are getting the 8.3s I had here in Greece. Give them a long listen and do switch back to your old ones from time to time. Enjoy and report back as soon as you can.

Dave

Thanks! Will do all of that :-)

I've listened to the entire Wilson range for years, driven with both Naim and other electronics.  I always walk away with the same assessment: bright tweeter, recessed mids and boomy bass.  I feel like the each driver in the speaker has been engineered to show off and exaggerate the sound.  I don't hear music.  

I'd check out the Titan's... designed with Naim electronics from a guy who get's it.  

Sabrinas are certainly not bright. Treble is very natural. My demo pair do boom a bit at a particular frquency but that may be due to being positioned too close to the rear wall.

Thanks for sharing! I have to have speakers close to wall, so for more reasons they dont seem to be the right pick for me. Happy that ART speakers are coming for homedemo and at least based on commentry here should work well at my place.

hope you get good results in the end!

Just seeing this thread. I did listen to Sabrinas with a NAP 300 (not DR) and it was excellent in a 15 by 20 foot room. I ultimately went with Sopra 3 but it was a tough decision. No problem driving the Wilsons. BTW the Sopras are wonderful in all respects.

The loan pair of Sabrinas went back to the dealer today. They are a terrific speaker - very natural sounding with great imaging. Unfortunately I'd need to get them further out into the room to overcome a bass resonance. Although they have low impedance, the 500 managed well.

Being American all the nuts are in Imperial and you have to use a 7/16 spanner (supplied)  for the lock nut on the spikes. They weigh a ton and have huge packaging to boot.

The dealer left me with a pair of Duette 2s to try in order to control the bass. On initial listening bass is much better but the magic of the Sabrinas has been reduced. Treble is noticeable on the Duette; slightly bright.

Best etc.,

GY.

Many thanks for sharing GY - its also my understanding they need to have quite some space around them. Happy hunting! Lars

Apparently the Sabrinas have gone up in price and now retail for £18,500.

My friendly dealer has lent me some Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution (my italics). They do sound very good. Lovely and natural with plenty of punch too.

I first heard the Sabrina's with a modest Rega integrated set up and fell in love with the sound.  I figured if they sound good on a low powered Rega integrated the Naim system should be fine.  I feel the Wilson's are a nice match up with a Naim system, plenty of power. Quality over quantity, right?  The 300DR would be really nice with the Sabrina's.  I sure like my 250DR/XPSDR/NAC272 with the Sabrina's.