Internet over mains plugs

You will get a lot of people say don't do and some of the reasoning is justified, but I use it with great success and had no issues at all. I use Devolo     http://www.devolo.co.uk/

Burgy100 posted:

You will get a lot of people say don't do and some of the reasoning is justified, but I use it with great success and had no issues at all. I use Devolo     http://www.devolo.co.uk/

I too use them no issues in x 2 years to be honest, with my imcoming broadband and router upstairs and music system the other side of the house had no choice

however I would recomend you use a switch - Netgear or simlar don't put straight into MuSo from Devolo  - so map should be  Develo>switch>MuSo -

antony d posted:

however I would recomend you use a switch - Netgear or simlar don't put straight into MuSo from Devolo  - so map should be  Develo>switch>MuSo -

There is no point in a switch in that config.,  all thats needed is a direct connection.  

I would only use as a last resort. They are not inherently reliable and are effectively half duplex and so issues like a device discovery and consistent data throughput could be an issue depending on your local environment. Try and also keep as far as possible away from your audio and radio equipment - preferably on a different radial or ring. Think very concentrated noisy SMPS.

Flat ethernet cable that you can lay under the carpet or edge of the room might be a consideration? I use it here and works a dream. Also some modern wifi equipment can be effective to provide infrastructure connectivity which might be a consideration if you cant use flat ethernet cable.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I would only use as a last resort. They are not inherently reliable and are effectively half duplex and so issues like a device discovery and consistent data throughput could be an issue depending on your local environment. Try and also keep as far as possible away from your audio and radio equipment - preferably on a different radial or ring. Think very concentrated noisy SMPS.

Flat ethernet cable that you can lay under the carpet or edge of the room might be a consideration? I use it here and works a dream. Also some modern wifi equipment can be effective to provide infrastructure connectivity which might be a consideration if you cant use flat ethernet cable.

Simon

Absolutely what Simon has just said...

Ethernet over Mains devices - like WiFi - are a technology that simply cannot be guaranteed to work or continue to work reliably as they are both very much at the mercy of the environment that they operate over. It is often assumed that Ethernet over Mains is "hard wired" but I find it is more appropriate to describe it as more like "WiFi channeled along a pipe".

In 95% of cases they will possibly seem to be fine but inherent in their design they will have issues with signal degradation when going across circuit breakers etc. and so we always recommend the use of a direct wired Ethernet connection wherever possible.

Phil

Phil,

Because of restrictions in running ethernet cable from the router, at the front of the house, to the rear, where the music room is, I've been forced to use a Devolo over mains device, which sets up a second, and apparently, independent wi-fi network.

The Naim boxes, i.e. HDX and NDS, together with the NAS, connect via a switch to the Devolo receiver in that room.

So, I'm confused between:

The wi fi which now exists throughout the house, without which my iPad controlling things, would not receive a signal.

                                                                                     and

The LAN, which provides the link between the various bits of kit.

Given that set up, am I still likely to be suffering a degradation in SQ?

Cheers,

Dave.

Can you run a cable around the outside of the house Dave ?

I've looked at doing that, but it'd be quite a task.

My confusion, based on little or no networking savvy, is in drawing a distinction between LAN, which the kit connects to, and 100% wi-fi, needed for the iPad.

I suppose that if I was to run an ethernet cable outside, though I'd still need the Devolo for wi-fi, at least the kit would not be connected.

Am I getting this right? 

dave marshall posted:

I suppose that if I was to run an ethernet cable outside, though I'd still need the Devolo for wi-fi

Once you've run an Ethernet cable you can connect a wireless access device to it, so unless I'm missing something, you won't need the Devolo at all.

Dave

If I were you I would be looking to run an Ethernet cable from the router, round the outside of the house, and into the music room. Outdoor cat 6 Ethernet cable is very cheap. I would connect that to a switch like a Netgear GS105 and connect all the Naim kit to that with Ethernet cables. If there isn't a good wifi signal in the room from my router that would allow my iPad to control the Naim then I would add a wifi access point, like an Apple Express for example, configured as a WAP rather than as a router and also plugged into the GS105. This will give you the best sound quality, the most solid network performance and excellent iPad control.  Other makes of switches and wifi access points are available....

And as Chris says, dump the Devolo.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Dave

If I were you I would be looking to run an Ethernet cable from the router, round the outside of the house, and into the music room. Outdoor cat 6 Ethernet cable is very cheap. I would connect that to a switch like a Netgear GS105 and connect all the Naim kit to that with Ethernet cables. If there isn't a good wifi signal in the room from my router that would allow my iPad to control the Naim then I would add a wifi access point, like an Apple Express for example, configured as a WAP rather than as a router and also plugged into the GS105. This will give you the best sound quality, the most solid network performance and excellent iPad control.  Other makes of switches and wifi access points are available....

And as Chris says, dump the Devolo.

best

David

+1

I recently had external cat6 installed round the outside of my house to replace my Belkin Ethernet over Mains units. Whilst network was robust before it very occasionally dropped out with hi res music especially if I was pulling other stuff over the link. Since the cat6 has been installed no drop outs at all and if I may say so an improvement to SQ.

Ah Hah!

Thinking inside the box...................I've had a second look, and think I've worked out how to run a flat cat6 cable internally, so it's on order as we speak.

Just one thing though, the wi-fi signal, from front to back of the house, is so poor, and I've already tried Belkin extenders, with no improvement.

The Devolo  is the first gadget which actually does what it says on the tin, so, what harm is there in leaving the Devolo installed, (not hooked into the network), and solely using it to provide wi-fi coverage to the iPad? 

...but you just won't need them!! Once you have the Ethernet cable, plug it into a switch, along with your streamer, NAS, whatever else you need to connect to it, AND a WiFi device (Airport Express or similar) and you no longer need the nasty, mains polluting Devolos.

Nope...still Devolo for me. My setup is all downstairs in the lounge and my US and HX5 are joined via router with my OPPO and Apple TV. I could never justify adding CAT5 or 6 cabling in or outside the house. Each to there own, obviously for me it works.

dave marshall posted:

 

The Devolo  is the first gadget which actually does what it says on the tin, so, what harm is there in leaving the Devolo installed, (not hooked into the network), and solely using it to provide wi-fi coverage to the iPad? 

If it works for you then fine... however think of the Devolo as a wifi extender, and the same considerations as one, albeit it has its own RF spectrum, conducted along your mains wiring. You may find discovery and automation fails from time to time, or devices are slow to appear on your Naim app or the volume control sticks on the Naim app, but clearly is working for you... and of course you could turn off discovery and manually assign devices if problematic. 

Just ensure if you can the Devolo devices are on a different ring main or radial to your audio equipment if the mitigation of RFI is  important for you in your listening experience, as they pack a phenomenal amount of RF energy into the mains, that make poor noisy SMPS IME often look quite benign by comparison.

Thanks Simon,

As I mentioned, I've finally had a lightbulb moment, and worked out that I should be able to run hardwired between the router at the front of the house, and a switch in the music room at the rear.

The remaining issue is wi-fi coverage in the music room, in order to use the Naim app for control on my iPad. 

I've tried various wi-fi extenders, all to no avail, and the Devolo is the first gadget to run successfully in this respect, since it appears to create it's own wi-fi network, quite independent from my TalkTalk one.

I will borrow an Apple Airport Express to try, as suggested, maybe it will fare better than those tried in the past, but I'd hate to run in this ethernet cable, only to find that I still need the Devolo to provide wi-fi. 

dave marshall posted:

Thanks Simon,

As I mentioned, I've finally had a lightbulb moment, and worked out that I should be able to run hardwired between the router at the front of the house, and a switch in the music room at the rear.

The remaining issue is wi-fi coverage in the music room, in order to use the Naim app for control on my iPad. 

I've tried various wi-fi extenders, all to no avail, and the Devolo is the first gadget to run successfully in this respect, since it appears to create it's own wi-fi network, quite independent from my TalkTalk one.

I will borrow an Apple Airport Express to try, as suggested, maybe it will fare better than those tried in the past, but I'd hate to run in this ethernet cable, only to find that I still need the Devolo to provide wi-fi. 

 

Dave

With the airport express you follow, set it up to provide a new wifi network rather than to extend your existing one. This is important and is what your Devolo is doing. You will still get full internet access for your iPad of course, but via the flat Ethernet cable.

Good luck!

best

David

Hi Dave - i had the same problem as you. The wireless router is at the front of the house and so wi-fi coverage in our conservatory and garden can be a bit patchy particularly if we're having a family gathering and all the kids are on their wireless devices. Our Virgin modem and Apple Extreme wireless router are in the study at the front of the house along with ripping and NAS boxes. CAT5e cable runs externally from here to the lounge at the back of the house where it feeds the Melco. I also have another run of cable which runs up to the loft to an airport express which provides fill in coverage over the back of the house and back garden. 

James

Thanks, both David and James, it sounds like Airport Express may provide the answer.

I'm sufficiently encouraged to actually be looking forward to the onerous task of running this ethernet cable, when it turns up in a day or so! 

Dave - good stuff - if your wifi needs are more demanding than the Apple Airport Express is suited - for me the latter only really optimum for a small area - albeit works very well with the Naim app - you might want to look at Ubiquiti wifi devices as access points that are wired. I understand Phil @ Naim has used these effectively in deployments.. and for larger deployments with limited ethernet wiring available one can use Wireless Mesh Networking devices from the likes of Eero and others.

Thanks again Simon, I'm staking everything on the fact that the borrowed Airport Express will provide full wi-fi coverage, once the cat 6 ethernet cable has been run...................otherwise...............

dave marshall posted:

Thanks again Simon, I'm staking everything on the fact that the borrowed Airport Express will provide full wi-fi coverage, once the cat 6 ethernet cable has been run...................otherwise...............

If it doesn't provide whole-house coverage then as a quick-and-dirty solution just make sure it has a different SSID to your routers network and then you can manually choose which network to connect your tablet to and at least you can then connect to the WiFi in your listening room which should at least mean that you get a decent WiFi signal in there for control.

We see lots of instances where people have configured multiple access points with the same SSID and passphrase assuming that their tablet / phone will dynamically hand off between access points and just connect all the time to the closest / strongest signal but the reality is that in that case they don't do - they will connect first time to whichever is selected by the device OS and then hang on to that access point limpet-like until it is no longer 'visible' and then will hunt for another access point to connect to so in this case, being able to manually select which WiFi network (access point) at least lets you decide where you want to connect to.

Phil

Cheers Phil,

Got it, I think.

So, on my MacBook, I can see both the Talk Talk network and the Devolo one, together with those of my neighbours.

Once the Airport Express has been installed and set up, then I ought to be able to see it instead of the Devolo, and simply log on to it in the music room, with my iPad, just as I do at present with the Devolo.

Can it be that simple, or am I missing something? 

That's basically it - just make sure the AirPort Express is set up as an access point and not as a router (I can't remember how Apple list the different modes of operation in their setup wizard).

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

That's basically it - just make sure the AirPort Express is set up as an access point and not as a router (I can't remember how Apple list the different modes of operation in their setup wizard).

Phil

Bizarrely, Apple seem to have gone for plain English which a normal human being has some chance of understanding here....

If you're not using an Airport device as a Router, you select Router Mode > Off (Bridge mode)

The 3 options in Wireless settings are to Create, Join, or Extend a wireless network. 

All of these terms seem to mean the same in Apple instructions as they do when you look them up in an English dictionary, which seems to be something of a rarity these days.