12yr old NAP500 back to the Mothership for service and DR upgrade. Hello 300s. Hellllooo 500DR!

Posted by: ayisgroovy on 01 January 2017

Being the first day into 2017, and currently enjoying the new tunes my updated power amp is making, I thought I'd share my recent experiences from my 500DR service and upgrade.

October 2016:  After much deliberation over "if" and then "when" I should take my 12yr old baby for the service and DR upgrade,  they were picked up by my north London dealer of many a year - Grahams.  As a tie-me-over for the ensuing weeks, I was given a NAP300(non DR) on loan which was a wonderful gesture by my dealer - thank you guys for this and for getting me a time slot for the 500 within 2 weeks of calling.  So, whilst listening to some tunes via the 300, I thought I'd share my journey with you from a relatively humble set up to what is near my end target  

Now, I've come a long way from exactly two years ago: CDX2/82/Supercap(o)/250(o)/NACA5/B&W802N, via a 52/SC/135s, to now a rather gutsy setup involving an NDS/2x555PS(1 DR)/SL 5-5din/552DR/SL din-XLR/500/Ultra Black/B&W802N.  Most notable was the introduction of the 552 and 500, which was not made at the same time for financial reasons!  This all came about through an element of good fortune at work and a "you only live once" change of heart. I've always loved audio equipment from my teen years (LP12/Ittok/K18/Nait/Kans) and my view has always been it's an investment into something that is tangible and gives me joy on tap over years.

I have digressed.  The point I think I'm trying to make is here is that once you have (temporarily) paused on the upgrading bug, you settle down and enjoy your system and the delivery of music.  Over time, ceteris paribus, you don't really notice gradual degradation that may have taken place. I've been very happy with the 500 (of course!) and it is only until it was swapped out this weekend for its return to the mothership and loan-300 installed that the differences were quite noticeable. 

26Nov2016. Fast forward.  A wonderful day - my 500 is ready for pick up and comes back serviced, DR'd (yay!), and the 500 head unit casing polished/refurbished looking like new! Thank you Naim! Ok, you might say that 4.9k should buy you a lot and expect a lot but the DR upgrade was to be first and foremost priority via replacing internal components, but the bodywork refurb didn't have to be done but was a very nice gesture by Naim.  So, initial impressions during first couple of hours of running? Wow wow wow!  In a nutshell, the keywords I would use are: gusto, deeper blacks (intra periods of silence), confidence/control, increased 3D depth/airiness, amazing revelation of detail/nuances.  To elaborate on the inky blackness, this allowed the start/stop of musical notes/chords to be heard clearly which helps "clarify" the tempo which drives any track and as a by-product accentuates the timing of the leading edge of notes.  As with the overall presentation of music, the DR+service really puts the 500DR into a different league.  The 300 I had on loan is no slouch either by spec or relative to 135s, but how I would encapsulate my comments on the good points of the 500DR is that it is a very very "confident" amp together with ample gusto on dynamic range.  Alternatively, what I am trying to say is that the new born confidence presents the music as it was intended to be with drum "thwacks" sounding just that and previously fuzzy bass lines snapping into focus and much more easier to follow, are just examples.  Further, detail enhancement is another wonderful strength and just makes it seem as if your music collection was New and you needed to play it all over again!  

The rest of November merged into December and sad to say the abnormally busy work schedule offered few chances to sit down and spin a few FLACS though in certain ways this was no bad things as perhaps it could have made me oblivious to some of the running in woes over the first month post DR/service.  Now that the Christmas break had come (and now sadly gone) I had a great chance to re-aquaint myself with my new amp, and further appreciate the subtle improvements since the early days since returning from the mothership.  I'm adamant that bass notes have grown deeper and extended over the month, and so has a further opening up of spatial mapping as well as a modest sweetening of the very high frequencies. Consistent with earlier posts by fellow Naim 500 owners who have gone through the DR+service upgrade and subsequent burn in angst, I'm pretty sure that I have gone through the trough of the performance J-curve and now on the upside leg as every (ok, most) time I play music on the system is just so enjoyable - I don't need to look for the new positive traits of the 500DR, they come out and slap me around the face and say "hey look at what I can do now" notes.

So, to finish off this post thus far, I am sitting in my listening chair on New Years' Day, tunes on,  with a smug and growing grin on my face and sets 2017 off with a good start! A question to 500DR owners - how long does the improvement continue for before the improvements level off into the future?

 

 

Posted on: 09 March 2017 by hungryhalibut

That's you then, with Chord and Dynaudio destroying the ''Naim sound'.

I agree with James and Joe here - just get what you want. So long as the music moves you - which is infinitely more important than choosing something just because it comes from one manufacturer or another. 

Posted on: 09 March 2017 by Harry
analogmusic posted:
Harry posted:

 There is no Naim house sound and paying more doesn’t get you more of it.

interesting.... in that case the whole Naim business model of upgrading from Nait to 552/500 is based on...?

Getting closer to the music? Having the HiFi removed to leave only the music? Works for me.

Naim can nail the timing. Better than anything I've heard. And bring fourth detail and insight without taking the picture to bits.  But all Naim amps do not display some kind of tonal distortion which gives them a house sound.  Maybe (and not uniquely) a style of presentation which is musically appealing, but then again, not in the case of the 200 or 250 for me. Each to our own. 

Going back as far as I can remember, the key for us was that we were happy that our system was the best, or one of them, for the budget available. If what we could come up with, given the circumstances, sounded right, then it was right. Many components have been auditioned when considering upgrades and most of didn’t fit for some reason. In a different room/system/pair of ears…..

Posted on: 09 March 2017 by Harry
analogmusic posted:

just an alternative view to Harry's view of the 250.

 

I think it's called "having a conversation".  Or something like that

I'm not too passionate about Naim and brand loyalty. I tend to be loyal to brands and dealers but only until I find something better - or not, as the case may be. I suppose it's a mix of contentedness and laziness. Given that it's a once-in-a-lifetime outlay our kids will likely inherit the system. Or it will be sold when it no longer fulfils a purpose due to limited space or poor hearing.  Our chopping and changing days are over.

What I'm a lot more passionate about is music. Always have been. It's the closest thing I have to a religion. In that context, my liking of Naim is self explanatory.  Thank (insert your deity here) we're not all the same. How boring would that be?

Posted on: 09 March 2017 by analogmusic

yes, thanks for understanding it's just a conversation.

When I finally got around to hearing 252/300 and 552/500 I did understand what you mean all along that the realism of music really improves.

However I did an experiment, took my speakers to my friends home, and heard the Chord Dave with 552/500, and the sound I got wasn't that much better than what I got with my 282/250DR with Chord Dave. My friend also said the same.

I'm still puzzled why, maybe the speakers aren't good enough,  but I clearly hear the differences between a Chord Dave and my Vinyl turntable on those same speakers. I can also clearly hear changing from NACA 5 to a Vertere speaker cable.

I'm just saying I heard more variability in changing sources (and speakers) than changing Naim amps...?

In any case I'm struggling now for any reason to change anything as it sounds musically good, even though I got a 250 amp 

I also don't feel it is a hardship going down to listen in another room to Chord Mojo, 202/200 with smaller Dynaudio speakers.

Posted on: 09 March 2017 by Harry

We all have uniquely set up systems, different rooms, ears and brains. We all hear different and we each listen for different things. Helen and I listen for completely different things in our music, including the music we both love in the area where out likes overlap. It's amazing that any group of people, such as in here, can relate in any way to the things that throw our individual switches, particularly when discussing audio reproduction. I am old enough and have been skint enough to remember a time when listening was sometimes limited or guided by audible distortion.  Just like most cars would rust and fall to bits with certainty. We live in a better world now.

Posted on: 09 March 2017 by The Strat (Fender)

Indeed Harry - it's all good 

Posted on: 09 March 2017 by analogmusic
Harry posted:

I'm not too passionate about Naim and brand loyalty. 

What I'm a lot more passionate about is music. Always have been. It's the closest thing I have to a religion. In that context, my liking of Naim is self explanatory.  Thank (insert your deity here) we're not all the same. How boring would that be?

I feel the same way, music is first and foremost to me, and the kit is a means to an end of enjoying music.

I'm not too loyal to Naim either, as I use Chord DAC and Dynaudio speakers, and kind of miss my old B&W 805s...

One can never say never, but B&W raising prices for D3 range did not help me to go back to the latest 805... 

Posted on: 09 March 2017 by Harry

I would rather have had needles stuck in my eyes than buy B&W speakers. Dull, boring, overrated. Tried plenty at home too. Then I heard a pair I couldn't resist. Never discount the unexpected. And above all - have fun. Big fun. It's important.

Posted on: 15 March 2017 by Dustysox

And from this day forward, tomorrow will now be called March 500 day!!

She's on her way back, and i hope that this time tomorrow night I shall be enjoying listening to music again with a little something more in the mix...a fully serviced/DR upgrade of my 500.

Bring it on March 500 eve!!!!!

Posted on: 15 March 2017 by Ricky Dasler
Dustysox posted:

And from this day forward, tomorrow will now be called March 500 day!!

She's on her way back, and i hope that this time tomorrow night I shall be enjoying listening to music again with a little something more in the mix...a fully serviced/DR upgrade of my 500.

Bring it on March 500 eve!!!!!

You will not be disappointed with your 500 DR Dusty. Mine has been back in my system for a week now and has sounded fantastic from cold with no sonic wobbles as yet. More of everything comes with this upgrade.

Happy listening to your music collection afresh.

Cheers

Rick.

Posted on: 15 March 2017 by Harry

Nice one Darren. There is nothing I can say which:

a) has not already been said

b) is probably going to be said by you in any case

Posted on: 16 March 2017 by Dustysox
Ricky Dasler posted:
Dustysox posted:

And from this day forward, tomorrow will now be called March 500 day!!

She's on her way back, and i hope that this time tomorrow night I shall be enjoying listening to music again with a little something more in the mix...a fully serviced/DR upgrade of my 500.

Bring it on March 500 eve!!!!!

You will not be disappointed with your 500 DR Dusty. Mine has been back in my system for a week now and has sounded fantastic from cold with no sonic wobbles as yet. More of everything comes with this upgrade.

Happy listening to your music collection afresh.

Cheers

Rick.

Hi Ricky,

 

Thats great news, and thank you.

I wish I had equally great news...unfortunately the courier decided to deliver the PSU today and "hopefully" the amp tomorrow!!!! Apparently standard procedure, go figure!!

Harry posted:

Nice one Darren. There is nothing I can say which:

a) has not already been said

b) is probably going to be said by you in any case

You could of said you will get your PSU today and amp tomorrow..that would of been a great prediction!!!!!!!!!!!

Fingers crossed for tomorrow...pt 2 day!!

One more day with out music...I hope. What i have come to realise is how much i enjoy listening to music and it really is a great tonic at the end of the day.

Posted on: 16 March 2017 by Harry

That's a bit sad. Oh well, they say anticipation is half the fun. Actually that's not remotely the case with the 500-DR but perhaps it will suffice for the next 24 hours.

Posted on: 17 March 2017 by Dustysox

17th March 2017 @ 17;51....Dusty has music again!!!!

Initial thought, if it sounded like this forever...I'd be a happy...eh....Dusty!!!!

More to follow...well done James & Henry...and not forgetting all @ Naim. You really 'get' Music.

Posted on: 17 March 2017 by Harry

This sounds familiar.

Out of the box I thought pretty much the same. "If this is how bad it gets, then woah!"

But you ain't heard nothing yet

You don't have a 500 any more.

Posted on: 17 March 2017 by Darke Bear

Be prepared for a three week run-in ride before it stabilizes, then a lot more to come after a few more months.

It is a different Amp entirely in its character. I'm interested in what you make of it.

DB.

Posted on: 17 March 2017 by ken c

I have had my 2x500DR now for close to 5 months now. and i agree with DB in connection with initial 3 week run-in where you will notice in no uncertain terms, that this is a different and much better amp.

However, if my experience is anything to go by, this initial 'throat clearing' is only a small hint of what's to come. In my case, something very significant happened from around early Feb onwards -- and i found myself wondering just how mere 'Hifi' can sound so musically realistic.

so i guess i am justified in saying  'prepare to be amazed....'

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 18 March 2017 by Dustysox

Sorry...Dusty AWOL.500 DR upgrade/service ..all I can say as unaccustomed as I am.....OMG....!!!!!

Posted on: 18 March 2017 by Dustysox

The "Audio" rainbow just got bigger and brighter!

One thing I did, pretty much straight away was increase the distance between the speakers. First switch on and they sounded way to close together.

 

Posted on: 18 March 2017 by Richard Sellicks

7 weeks now and just gets better 

Posted on: 18 March 2017 by Harry

Yeah. Changing one thing changes other things.  For good in this case. My speakers are a bit further apart nowadays, although I didn't move them so soon.

Posted on: 18 March 2017 by Dustysox
Richard Sellicks posted:

7 weeks now and just gets better 

Hi Richard,

Not wishing too rush things, life goes quickly enough but what a treat I'm in for a treat....in 7 weeks! Just enjoying the now.

Harry posted:

Yeah. Changing one thing changes other things.  For good in this case. My speakers are a bit further apart nowadays, although I didn't move them so soon.

Hi Harry,

Great to hear from you, as always.

Picture the scene, lights off,music on...glass of wine any minute now. Bliss, isn't life great!

Posted on: 18 March 2017 by Dustysox

Could be my last upgrade....yeah... I always say that!!!!

Posted on: 18 March 2017 by Harry

But this time you mean it.......

Posted on: 18 March 2017 by Dustysox
Harry posted:

But this time you mean it.......

And I always say that!! Never!

I tell my wife.....blame Harry!!!