Naim Nait XS2 Integrated

I think if you want to downsize and you can't get into the SN2, I think what you have in mind would be very good.

To be honest, the sound or presentation you're looking for, I'm not sure you would like the presentation of the SN2, as it doesn't have a round and warm presentation, but it does sound powerful with excellent weight to the bass and a large sounding soundstage.

The XS2 does have a rounder and warmer presentation to the SN2, does sound powerful, so you may like it better than the SN2.

Compared to your current system, I think the XS2 would be worth auditioning. It might even be an improvement!

My reasoned guess as a former XS owner is that the XS2 may give a marginal gain for quite a lot of money. Consider instead having FC2x and NAP150x serviced and recapped if around ten years old.

You don't list your speaker wires. Naca5 with Naim bananas at both ends will go a long way to giving what you want imo, if you don't have them at the moment.

C.

ink04,

Maybe a tangential answer to your OP, but I recently demo'd the RX3s at home with my SN2/CD5x. Musical and engaging speakers with tuneful though rather shallow bass, a somewhat dry presentation, and didn't do justice to the SN2s capabilities for drive and command. I chose to sit pat with my similarly priced Totem Sttafs which provide richer timbre, bigger soundstage, and a greater bottom-end presence in that combo.

Greater amplification should yield better speaker command, but the RX3s are efficient. Throwing your question for "noticeably more powerful with greater weight and a fuller sound" back on you I'd say don't discount alternative speakers for what you are seeking within your current, well-balanced system.

joerand posted:

Throwing your question for "noticeably more powerful with greater weight and a fuller sound" back on you I'd say don't discount alternative speakers for what you are seeking within your current, well-balanced system.

The RX3s are new though, Randy. Chap had Proac Tablettes for years.

C.

ink04 posted:

How different would the XS2 sound in my system compared to my existing 150x/122x with flatcap & CD5x with Rega RX3 speakers. 

Would it be noticeably more powerful with greater weight and a fuller sound.  Would the sound be warmer and richer sounding than what I have now. Would there be improvement in Soundstage. These are the areas where I am seeking an improvement to what I have now. 

Ive had the opportunity to compare my existing amplifier with other manufacturers integrated amps but not yet had the chance to try a Naim Integrated. The intentions were to try an SN2 but it is outside my budget. I would rather buy new and also scale down to an integrated. 

Thanks 

i think 122/150/flatcap are much better than a xs2...

Christopher_M posted:

My reasoned guess as a former XS owner is that the XS2 may give a marginal gain for quite a lot of money. Consider instead having FC2x and NAP150x serviced and recapped if around ten years old.

You don't list your speaker wires. Naca5 with Naim bananas at both ends will go a long way to giving what you want imo, if you don't have them at the moment.

C.

I'm currently using IXOS cable but have NAC A5 but the length of the cable is too short. Although what I could do is reposition my speakers temporarily and compare the difference between the two cables. That will be interesting, I will try this out. I have both the Nim Speaker connectors and banana plugs too. 

Yikes, if the ixos cable is the plaited type then it's really not suitable for Naim amps - does your NAP150x run warm to hot?  Does it sound a bit thin and strained?  Try running it with some NACA5 - try to use more than 5m per channel and do ensure that the Naim speaker connectors (properly soldered) are used at the amp end.  No point using NACA5 that's too short.  It's not so good for the amp either (although possibly better than the ixos) and it will sound thinner and less at ease than longer lengths. Then again the ixos cable may have pushed the amp to needing a service sooner rather than later...

ink04 posted:

How different would the XS2 sound in my system compared to my existing 150x/122x with flatcap & CD5x with Rega RX3 speakers. 

Would it be noticeably more powerful with greater weight and a fuller sound.  Would the sound be warmer and richer sounding than what I have now.,... I would rather buy new and also scale down to an integrated. 

Thanks 

Once you get cable issue solved try a Nait 2 or a 72/nap with hicap

I hear your wish about scale down and buy new...but a new XS might come in £££ more than  s/h 82/200 etc..all will walk over XS, so would your current

Alternative better source and service 150

Lot of boxes, I know, maybe you should look at new Uniti range

Having tried different lengths at the factory some years ago I came to the conclusion that yes, the length of NACA5 does make a difference to the performance.  IIRC, I felt that under 5m per channel (@3.5m) was not as free flowing as over 5m. It was a bit thin and seemed a bit forced. 5m was appreciably better. There wasn't a great deal of difference detected between 7m  and 10m,  that's why I reckon this length (7-10m) is about optimum - good flow and ease with well fleshed out body.  We then tried 20m per channel and while still very good it was marginally less liked than 10m.

Like all things too much speaker cable can be a bit of a pain, so I can understand the wish to limit lengths.  Long lengths do however enable an optimal situation of having the system well away from between the speakers.  And if you ever do move the system, the room or house, then too much cable is a minor inconvenience, but too little is a disaster.

I don't consider the 5x family to have a great deal of weight and authority.  I'm not sure how you define "fullness of sound" but the 5x family is certainly not lean.  What you have is a small to medium scale presentation with a nice sense of pace to it.  In a small to medium room it will do well.  If you want bigger slam you will have to  go up the ladder.  A new source should follow the amp upgrade.  And then speakers.  Which is all fine if you have the money.  For all of it, I mean.  If a complete revamp sounds scary you could try a hiline and some powerlines.  And decent shelving.  None of which will give you a significant boost in weight and authority, but will show you that what you have is actually quite good already.

ink04 posted:

How different would the XS2 sound in my system compared to my existing 150x/122x with flatcap & CD5x with Rega RX3 speakers. 

The intentions were to try an SN2 but it is outside my budget. I would rather buy new and also scale down to an integrated. 

While you will find the XS2 presentation slighty different than the 122x/FC/150x's, the difference is marginal and doesn't really justify risk and cost. Best is of course to borrow the XS2, test and compare in situ, at home.

Knowing a bit your combo, I would consider staying with it until you can go SN2 if not 282/250 or 272/250 if you are considering streaming. You already have a wonderful combo.

Chag -

Thanks for the recommendations, a bit on an update. I have found some NAC A4 which I used to use in my system many years ago. The lengths are about 3.5M (I thought they were NAC A5 as mentioned in my earlier post but turns out they are A4).

ive just connected the cable and will use it over the next week or so to hear the differrence.

The lengths are a little too short as one cable is going diagonally across the room to get at the speaker but I can make do for now just so that I can evaluate the difference. 

I appreciate that the Naca5 will sound "better" if it's over 5 metres in length though the stiffness of the cable may not be appreciated in certain setups especially when the equipment or rack is not at the centre of the speakers but on one side of the room. Currently I have 3.5m on the Naca5 and can attest to Richard's comments on the slightly forced presentation of the shorter length cable. I am not sure how different will a 7m length of Naca5 sounds like but I have little inclination to try. The stiffness of the Naca5 is one of the main factors (for me) and I think the sound quality between a 3.5m and 7m will not be too far off apart from the 7m sounding better, ie. more relaxed and natural.

I will have the opportunity to listen to some Chord Epic Twin cables after I get them terminated by end of the week. It would be interesting to compare the Naca5 with the Chord Epic in my system and see which cable I would prefer. An interesting note is the Chord Epic is also quite stiff as well although still better than the Naca5. The Rega SC42 cable is much more flexible when compared to both the Naca5 and Chord Epic.

xs2 works well with chord rumour 2, better than naca5 for my ears, also i ve made some tests with cables lengths but for xs2 didn't heard big diff between naca5 -> 3m -> 5m -> 7m, i ve tried also odyssey2 but was too much for xs2, for pre/power combination naca5 is mandatory ,and differences between lengths are more "visible", lumina later.

Adi - when you say Oydessy was too much do you mean financially?

A big of an update.......I've dug out a pair of NAC A4 cables from my attic which I used to use many years ago.

in order to get them to connect to my speakers I have had to move my speakers to a new position. Not ideal but I now have my speakers (Rega RX3) about 27inches from the back wall, the Naim Equipment is midway between and behind the speakers on the back wall on a Quadrasphire Rack and LP12 on Sound Organisation Stand.

ive never before been a fan of equipment being between the speakers but I guess as the speakers are more in front of the equipment it seems to work better than in the equipment was in line in the plane between the speakers.

The sound is noticeably less forward with the music appearing from the space between the speakers in line with the plane of the speakers as opposed to previously being more forward.  The sound doesn't appear to be coming from the speakers instead appearing from the space mentioned instead. 

Also the sound appears to be a little more refined and controlled in the higher frequencies, the brightness has gone but the details remain. Leading edge of notes nicely produced. Overall a more relaxed sound. 

My guess is the new position of the speakers may be contributing to this or is this more as a result of the NAC A4 in my system in place of the IXOS speaker cable. 

Im going to leave everything in this position for a few days and then revert to the IXOS to see what changes in the presentation.

Just checked the price of the NAC A5 too,  it's a lot more expensive than I remember and Ideally I would need a pair of 5M lengths. 

Anyway I will see how things sound with the NAC A4 after a few days. 

ink04 posted:

....Ideally I would need a pair of 5M lengths.

Better not to stint, and get 2x7m for the reasons Richard gave imo. Easy for me to say, I know. But it's what I did. No regrets, and great sound with Naim bananas at both ends.

C

Hello,

with odyssey2, xs2 with focal aria 926, for my room, the sound had tendency of being boom at high levels, i felt a coloration in the sound, even i tried different placements/positions with speakers, with naca5 and rumour2 didn't felt that "coloration".

I see here on forum most of users have tendency to associate "speakers" cables with speakers, which i don't know if is better, from what i know speakers cables are matching with amplifiers not with speakers....yes i know on  the other hand everyone is free to do what/how wants so most of us are pairing cables that give us "coloration" we want to hear, but that doesn't means the sound is correct.      

What's the latest on SQ with the Naca 4 after a few days, please?

C.

Christopher_M posted:

What's the latest on SQ with the Naca 4 after a few days, please?

C.

I've added a photo of how I have set my system up to accommodate my NACA4 see above.

A few things that were noticeably different.

There was greater body to the presentation of the music, which was a lot fuller. With volume at my comfortable listening position (10 o'clock position) there appeared to be greater heft and weight which was perfectly controlled. The sound is richer than before too which I like and can listen to music now for many hours without fatigue.

The overall physicality was so much better than before, in so much that placement of performers and their role in the performance. This created a more realistic connection with what was happening in the space in front of me. 

The presentation appeared  less forward than before the NAC A4 was added with a more rounded treble and improved bass. Music was more in the plane across the speakers between and to each side with an added depth from behind the speakers and less forward in front of the speakers. Soundstage was much improved as a result.

I had toyed with the idea of moving my LP12 to the top shelf of my Quadrasphire rack but I have managed to avoid this. The LP12 is on a Sound Organisation table. I've some work to do with tidying up the cables though.

In you photo there are 3 small boxes sitting on top of what I presume is either your Flatcap or power amp. It's a bit hard to see, viewing the pic on a phone, but I presume one of these is a phono stage, in which case I think your top priority might be to move it as far from the amp & ps as possible. Maybe add a lower shelf to your SO table (years ago they sold little clips for that purpose) and put it on there. 

You could even try putting the phono stage on the floor (as a temporary measure while you grapple with cable dressing) to see if it improves things, anything to keep it away from those transformers.

Please throw that distribution block in a bin!!!!. It has a red neon light that polutes your amps. A simple one from Wirelworld (Matrix2) will suffice.

Alternatively you could just bypass the neon in the block.

BTW whilst it can be challenging (and I'm not one to talk) but I think a little cable dressing might help too.

ChrisSU posted:

In you photo there are 3 small boxes sitting on top of what I presume is either your Flatcap or power amp. It's a bit hard to see, viewing the pic on a phone, but I presume one of these is a phono stage, in which case I think your top priority might be to move it as far from the amp & ps as possible. Maybe add a lower shelf to your SO table (years ago they sold little clips for that purpose) and put it on there. 

You could even try putting the phono stage on the floor (as a temporary measure while you grapple with cable dressing) to see if it improves things, anything to keep it away from those transformers.

Thanks for the tip, the three boxes you mention are as follows:-

Heed Orbit 1 PSU for the LP12, a Heed Questar Phono Pre Amp and a Heed Q PSU for the pre amp.

now that I am happy with the positioning of the equipment I will tidy the cables and probably move the three Heed Units to sit beneath the LP12 on a plinth.   

Thanks again.

I have uploaded another photos of what I have done so far since receiving the tips provided in this thread.

Heed Phono Pre Amp and Power supply and the Heed Orbit 1 are no longer sitting on top of my Naim Power Amp in the rack. They are now below the LP12 and are on a small unit which does not have any contact with the Sound Organisation Stand.

I have disconnected the neon light distribution block and in place I have two standard extension blocks, nothing fancy but I will look into  the Wireworld Matrix 2 as mentioned above or similar.

Ive had a go at tidying the cables up a bit, they are looking a lot less of a mess now but still have some tweaking to do. 

Thanks again for those that have contributed too. Any further tips appriciated.