There and back again – NACA5 to SuperLumina and back to NACA5

ken c posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:
Been playing around with speaker cables between my two Naim systems.

I was always impressed with SuperLumina speaker cables – one of the early adopters. The level of details they present is simply stunning.

Recently during some box swapping and moving I thought I would try my trusted NACA5 on a ‘better’ system (NDS /252 /250DR into Ovators S-400). Suddenly fun returned.
Don’t know what to attribute it to.
But it surely cannot be due to this cheaper garden-hose lookalike thing…

Or….???

did you notice this reduction in "fun" the very first time you installed the SL speaker cables? i assume they replaced the NACA5?

enjoy

ken

Correct - I've done it twice now. SL certainly did bring increased resolution - it does sound fantastic. But somehow NACA5 sounds fun. It seems to open up mid-range too.

I  wonder if the same applies to black boxes then. Would 552 owners swap the increased resolution etc for say a 282, which by all accounts is a fun pre amp.

I find the fun factor has increased in all areas with SL cables

I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent, literate and articulate, but I have to confess to  not understanding the bulk of what is being discussed on this thread. When I was given a demo by my dealer of the system I own now, I initially heard it with NACA5 speaker cable. I liked what I heard, but was then given a demo of Chord Epic Twin cable. Over the course of the afternoon we swapped backwards and forwards, and finally I performed a 'blind' test. The Chord won that test hands down, and has given me great pleasure ever since. Isn't that the best way to choose any component, within any given price range? I really do not understand what people mean when they talk about 'timing', 'PRaT' and 'foot tapping'!! Why try to analyse what gives you the greatest pleasure - it either does, or it doesn't. Period. 

Timmo1341 posted:

I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent, literate and articulate, but I have to confess to  not understanding the bulk of what is being discussed on this thread. When I was given a demo by my dealer of the system I own now, I initially heard it with NACA5 speaker cable. I liked what I heard, but was then given a demo of Chord Epic Twin cable. Over the course of the afternoon we swapped backwards and forwards, and finally I performed a 'blind' test. The Chord won that test hands down, and has given me great pleasure ever since. Isn't that the best way to choose any component, within any given price range? I really do not understand what people mean when they talk about 'timing', 'PRaT' and 'foot tapping'!! Why try to analyse what gives you the greatest pleasure - it either does, or it doesn't. Period. 

Unfortunately we do not have the benefit of A/B comparisons to communicate what we hear with different components on a forum. The only tool we have is words. And it is precisely why it can be so difficult to explain an aural experience in words that we resort to descriptors that make sense to us (ourselves) but not maybe to all. Words such as 'Fun' and 'Foot-tapping' are really more descriptors of how a collection of components playing music makes us feel. Probably the best we can do with such complexities in converting aural experiences into oral (written) explanations. (Did you see what I did there?).

Most of the common descriptors of aural experiences mean subtly (or even very) different things to different people or indeed mean nothing. I agree the best way to choose equipment is to listen to it, preferably in your own home. But that does not diminish the value of reading the experiences of others on here, no matter how imperfect the language. It certainly helps to enlighten us all, providing options we may have never considered and helping us form a manageable shortlist of components of interest. Then at least your subsequent listening/demoing sessions can be more targeted, and hopefully more fruitful.

nigelb posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent, literate and articulate, but I have to confess to  not understanding the bulk of what is being discussed on this thread. When I was given a demo by my dealer of the system I own now, I initially heard it with NACA5 speaker cable. I liked what I heard, but was then given a demo of Chord Epic Twin cable. Over the course of the afternoon we swapped backwards and forwards, and finally I performed a 'blind' test. The Chord won that test hands down, and has given me great pleasure ever since. Isn't that the best way to choose any component, within any given price range? I really do not understand what people mean when they talk about 'timing', 'PRaT' and 'foot tapping'!! Why try to analyse what gives you the greatest pleasure - it either does, or it doesn't. Period. 

Unfortunately we do not have the benefit of A/B comparisons to communicate what we hear with different components on a forum. The only tool we have is words. And it is precisely why it can be so difficult to explain an aural experience in words that we resort to descriptors that make sense to us (ourselves) but not maybe to all. Words such as 'Fun' and 'Foot-tapping' are really more descriptors of how a collection of components playing music makes us feel. Probably the best we can do with such complexities in converting aural experiences into oral (written) explanations. (Did you see what I did there?).

Most of the common descriptors of aural experiences mean subtly (or even very) different things to different people or indeed mean nothing. I agree the best way to choose equipment is to listen to it, preferably in your own home. But that does not diminish the value of reading the experiences of others on here, no matter how imperfect the language. It certainly helps to enlighten us all, providing options we may have never considered and helping us form a manageable shortlist of components of interest. Then at least your subsequent listening/demoing sessions can be more targeted, and hopefully more fruitful.

excellent response Nigel.

given that a lot of people on this forum possibly like/use a Naim component in their system, makes me think that perhaps there is some verbal descriptor of the sound that we hear that we all agree and understand. But i have to admit that i have not yet come across this description.

"emotion" is nearest -- but i suspect even this one has personal meanings...

ah well...

enjoy

ken

nigelb posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent, literate and articulate, but I have to confess to  not understanding the bulk of what is being discussed on this thread. When I was given a demo by my dealer of the system I own now, I initially heard it with NACA5 speaker cable. I liked what I heard, but was then given a demo of Chord Epic Twin cable. Over the course of the afternoon we swapped backwards and forwards, and finally I performed a 'blind' test. The Chord won that test hands down, and has given me great pleasure ever since. Isn't that the best way to choose any component, within any given price range? I really do not understand what people mean when they talk about 'timing', 'PRaT' and 'foot tapping'!! Why try to analyse what gives you the greatest pleasure - it either does, or it doesn't. Period. 

Unfortunately we do not have the benefit of A/B comparisons to communicate what we hear with different components on a forum. The only tool we have is words. And it is precisely why it can be so difficult to explain an aural experience in words that we resort to descriptors that make sense to us (ourselves) but not maybe to all. Words such as 'Fun' and 'Foot-tapping' are really more descriptors of how a collection of components playing music makes us feel. Probably the best we can do with such complexities in converting aural experiences into oral (written) explanations. (Did you see what I did there?).

Most of the common descriptors of aural experiences mean subtly (or even very) different things to different people or indeed mean nothing. I agree the best way to choose equipment is to listen to it, preferably in your own home. But that does not diminish the value of reading the experiences of others on here, no matter how imperfect the language. It certainly helps to enlighten us all, providing options we may have never considered and helping us form a manageable shortlist of components of interest. Then at least your subsequent listening/demoing sessions can be more targeted, and hopefully more fruitful.

Sorry, still none the wiser! Everyone seems to be attempting to describe why they prefer a particular cable, instead of just stating their preference. Given the almost infinite number of variables involved, and the total subjectivity of aural pleasure, I certainly would not be basing my next acquisition upon any individual's attempt to put into words his/her listening experience. Perhaps I just don't have enough time on my hands! That said, I will continue to read all contributions with interest (and sometimes amusement/bemusement). It's a good job we're all different, eh?!

Third movement of Tchaikovsky Symphony no 4.. has a Piccolo solo of 21 notes under less than 3 seconds....must be one of the best tests of timing !

Timmo1341 posted:

nigelb posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent, literate and articulate, but I have to confess to  not understanding the bulk of what is being discussed on this thread. When I was given a demo by my dealer of the system I own now, I initially heard it with NACA5 speaker cable. I liked what I heard, but was then given a demo of Chord Epic Twin cable. Over the course of the afternoon we swapped backwards and forwards, and finally I performed a 'blind' test. The Chord won that test hands down, and has given me great pleasure ever since. Isn't that the best way to choose any component, within any given price range? I really do not understand what people mean when they talk about 'timing', 'PRaT' and 'foot tapping'!! Why try to analyse what gives you the greatest pleasure - it either does, or it doesn't. Period. 

Unfortunately we do not have the benefit of A/B comparisons to communicate what we hear with different components on a forum. The only tool we have is words. And it is precisely why it can be so difficult to explain an aural experience in words that we resort to descriptors that make sense to us (ourselves) but not maybe to all. Words such as 'Fun' and 'Foot-tapping' are really more descriptors of how a collection of components playing music makes us feel. Probably the best we can do with such complexities in converting aural experiences into oral (written) explanations. (Did you see what I did there?).

Most of the common descriptors of aural experiences mean subtly (or even very) different things to different people or indeed mean nothing. I agree the best way to choose equipment is to listen to it, preferably in your own home. But that does not diminish the value of reading the experiences of others on here, no matter how imperfect the language. It certainly helps to enlighten us all, providing options we may have never considered and helping us form a manageable shortlist of components of interest. Then at least your subsequent listening/demoing sessions can be more targeted, and hopefully more fruitful.

Sorry, still none the wiser! Everyone seems to be attempting to describe why they prefer a particular cable, instead of just stating their preference. Given the almost infinite number of variables involved, and the total subjectivity of aural pleasure, I certainly would not be basing my next acquisition upon any individual's attempt to put into words his/her listening experience. Perhaps I just don't have enough time on my hands! That said, I will continue to read all contributions with interest (and sometimes amusement/bemusement). It's a good job we're all different, eh?!

Surely the 'why' is far more interesting and enlightening than the 'what'.

This would be a very boring place if all we read was:

I like product A

Well I prefer product B.

What use is that to anybody?

TOBYJUG posted:

Third movement of Tchaikovsky Symphony no 4.. has a Piccolo solo of 21 notes under less than 3 seconds....must be one of the best tests of timing !

i believe i have this recording -- so i will look out for the fast solo :-)

enjoy

ken

Timmo1341 posted:

 Given the almost infinite number of variables involved, and the total subjectivity of aural pleasure, I certainly would not be basing my next acquisition upon any individual's attempt to put into words his/her listening experience. ..... It's a good job we're all different, eh?!

lots of variables -- yes i definitely agree. but i don't believe anyone would normally base their purchase decisions based solely on "reviews" here, so i suspect you are not alone here...

enjoy...

ken

Even though i do enjoy reading everyone's thoughts/reviews of these cables,given the substantial price of them,i will make my best effort to hear or demo them before buying anything Superlumina...even if this means a three or four hour drive,which it probably will be.It is still nice to have some recommendations of what to try,when you head out to your nearest dealer.Adam now has me curious about the chord tuned aray,i did some reading on those,so i would try to find a dealer with both brands,then go listen.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Alba1320 posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Been playing around with speaker cables between my two Naim systems.

I was always impressed with SuperLumina speaker cables – one of the early adopters. The level of details they present is simply stunning.

Recently during some box swapping and moving I thought I would try my trusted NACA5 on a ‘better’ system (NDS /252 /250DR into Ovators S-400).  Suddenly fun returned.
Don’t know what to attribute it to.
But it surely cannot be due to this cheaper garden-hose lookalike thing…

Or….???

Welcome back to the fold, Adam - your 'transgression' will be overlooked on this occasion.

It's a good place to be in

Muso for Adam!

No quarter posted:

Even though i do enjoy reading everyone's thoughts/reviews of these cables,given the substantial price of them,i will make my best effort to hear or demo them before buying anything Superlumina...even if this means a three or four hour drive,which it probably will be.It is still nice to have some recommendations of what to try,when you head out to your nearest dealer.Adam now has me curious about the chord tuned aray,i did some reading on those,so i would try to find a dealer with both brands,then go listen.

Specifically it's: Chord Signature Tuned Aray (the black one). I use on of those for connecting 252 to 250. I also have two of Signature Tunded Aray streaming cables.

Pcd posted:

Qb only

Ovewhelmed with your generosity  It would actually fit quite nicely into out study - my wife is resiting for now though.

Somehow, and I'm really confused as to why, she claims we don't need to have a Naim in every room. I always respond to that we don't have Naims in out bathrooms. But for some bizzare reason that argument never goes down too well....

Emre posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Alba1320 posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Been playing around with speaker cables between my two Naim systems.

I was always impressed with SuperLumina speaker cables – one of the early adopters. The level of details they present is simply stunning.

Recently during some box swapping and moving I thought I would try my trusted NACA5 on a ‘better’ system (NDS /252 /250DR into Ovators S-400).  Suddenly fun returned.
Don’t know what to attribute it to.
But it surely cannot be due to this cheaper garden-hose lookalike thing…

Or….???

Welcome back to the fold, Adam - your 'transgression' will be overlooked on this occasion.

It's a good place to be in

Muso for Adam!

Moussaka perhaps....

I Ordered a WitchHat DIN/XLR pair this afternoon for my 552/500 on the back of HH and Nigel's prompt here.

I'm definitely swayed by the idea that I can return them if they don't do the job for me, but I'm also viewing it as a kind of interim measure. In the long run I may well end up with SL or another higher end alternative, but having so recently abused my finances with the 552 purchase and with my next priority clearly a service/DR for the 500 in a year or two (once my bank balance comes off life-support) and then likely SL speaker cable or similar next, I can't see an expensive DIN/XLR being splashed for in quite a while. If the WitchHat gets me a small uplift for 4years or so it should be £200 well spent I figured.

So, Nigel, despite my part in your 552 temptations, you may be getting me to part with cash before the opposite - even if the sums involved are a little different!

Kevin

Just to 'annoy' you a bit more - a good friend of mine, who's also a Naim dealer, runs a full 500 series setup. He swears only by one type of 'system' interconnects..... ahm.... Chrod... ahm... Sarum Tuned... ahm... Aray.... (yes - those white, challenging looking things).

Adam Zielinski posted:

Kevin

Just to 'annoy' you a bit more - a good friend of mine, who's also a Naim dealer, runs a full 500 series setup. He swears only by one type of 'system' interconnects..... ahm.... Chrod... ahm... Sarum Tuned... ahm... Aray.... (yes - those white, challenging looking things).

 

"The Chord Company started in 1985 in response to demand from overseas customers wanting high quality interconnects for use with Naim Audio amplifiers.  Hi-fi dealers soon found that these cables improved performance, so The Chord Company started supplying the UK market. Such was the good relationship that the company built with its overseas and UK customers, that many of them still sell and distribute Chord products today"

I guess they've been around the block a couple of times!

Music anyone!

Allante93!

Hi Adam, 

i will investigate SSA again at some point now that I have a 552. I promised myself that I would/should after an extensive trial of SSA vs SL in April. There was a LOT about the SSA's presentation that I loved and found superior, sonically, to SL. But...

TonyM described earlier that he found SL airier, more detailed, but less musical than SSA. Oddly, that describes my experience too, but in reverse! I loved the sonics of SSA - simply a gorgeous sound, but I found myself admiring that facet on just about every track, but at the end of too many of those tracks, the musical event just hadn't happened for me. With SL it did, every time.

however, that was with a 52 in charge. 552 could easily make the difference. If it gives  SSA the 'goosebump factor' I get from SL and maintains the SSA sonics, I will swap. Or then again there's Chord Music!  ..

Aargh!!!

That's the 'revenge' for tempting NigelB and I with that awful 552 of yours...

At the end of the day cables have to 'do it for you' - whatever brand, whatever name they are...

Oh those poor 552 owners agonising over which cables to buy, I feel so sorry for them (NOT).

Not jealous, not jealous at all…..

Mike-B posted:

How about these anaconda's,  just been fed by the look of it. 

Are those cables photoshopped or for real?

GraemeH posted:

james n posted:

Mike-B posted:

How about these anaconda's,  just been fed by the look of it. 

Love those discrete systems that just blend into a room 

Like a drugs mule's intestine.

G

If you don't like the look of them, you could just run them under the carpet.

winkyincanada posted:

GraemeH posted:

james n posted:

Mike-B posted:

How about these anaconda's,  just been fed by the look of it. 

Love those discrete systems that just blend into a room 

Like a drugs mule's intestine.

G

If you don't like the look of them, you could just run them under the carpet.

Or serve them to your guests - I recommend pan fried with scallops.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Somehow, and I'm really confused as to why, she claims we don't need to have a Naim in every room. I always respond to that we don't have Naims in out bathrooms. But for some bizzare reason that argument never goes down too well....

I am disappointed by this statement Adam - I feel that you are simply not trying hard enough ...  

In the bathroom in my last flat I ran a Qute and NAP100 into a small pair of "bookshelf" speakers on 1m tall Atacama stands and an M&K VX-7 sub.

Phil