Digital Audio Debacle
Posted by: ThatsNotMyNaim on 26 October 2016
Hello all,
I bought a new system in April (with little knowledge of this type of level) and have been on a difficult and tedious learning curve since. But learnt much. Partly thanks to helpful people on this forum. I know most of my system isn't Naim but people here know their stuff. The other forums are full of left field ideas.
I wanted to write this up for any new starters out there. So they don't make the same silly errors.
What I bought:
Chord 2Qute, Naim Nait XS2, Proac 118. With Chord Silver Plus USB cable, Chord Rumour 2 speaker cables.
My setup:
iMac Audivarna Apple Lossy files > Chord Silver Plus USB > Chord 2 Qute > Chord Chameleon RCA RCA > Nait Xs2 > Chord Rumour 2 single wire > Proac 118. Atacama Moseco stands > Atacama Eris rack.
What I thought:
I demoed only at the dealer. First bad move. When I got it all delivered and setup, I was distinctly underwhelmed in many ways. I couldn't fathom how you could pay 4K out and have such distinctly average sound with a bit of an annoying edge. I noticed the music sounded hugely clinical and cold. Sharp and aggravating. Not like the dealers.
The first issue I noticed was a big mains hum. Which I narrowed down to the switch Mode power supply that came with the Chord 2Qute. I bought a TP PSU to replace it which calmed the sound down massively. And removed the mains hum. Sound was much calmer, more involving and bigger. Felt like a good move. I was positive all this PSU malarkey was the answer.
But I still wasn't happy so I started buying all my music on CD and converting to WAV. This provided an improvement to fullness but the sound was still lacking.
Like a fool, I Went through various speaker cables Rumour, Odyseey, Epic, TQB, Black Rhodium, Nac A5. Compared the Rumour all sounded thinner, I now realise this as Rumour being boomy rather than acoustically full and rich (which the system wasn't at the time). For the time being I went with the Odyssey as it was more open and didn't make the room boom. It also made it easier to determine what effects other element changes would have going forward. But this wasn't an answer. TQ cables made the problem worse... but not because they aren't great cables. I could hear how good they were in terms of transparency but the sound was dire and ear bleeding. They just showed it all up horribly.
I got some great advice from the very helpful and eternally pleasant Nigel Finn at Chord Company. He suggested spinning the room around which helped massively. I couldn't of done this with the Rumour cables as the boom in the new position was so crazy. So I bought some used Odyssey 2 as mentioned and this controlled the bass much better. Staggeringly so. By the way in the middle of this Nigel recommended a Shawline RCA RCA to replace the Chameleon. This was like a system upgrade. I joke not. Clarity and cohesion were remarkable.
Still not content, and not being able to put my finger on it, I then moved on to thinking about various different caps thinking this would solve my issue. Like my Xs2 was to blame for sharpness and forwardness. The sibilance was driving me nuts. Like a cap, FC,TC,HC would be a silver bullet. Even thinking ahead to Supernaits!
Randomly at this point I tried a few difference amps. Just to check this wasn't that an Xs2 issue. I quickly came back to Naim after Musical Fidelity, Sonneteer Alabaster, Classe Sigma demos. Missing the Naim swing.
Then I threw caution to the wind with a Flat Cap XS. This was actually a really nice addition. But I didn't want to pay the money for it feeling it was overpriced, circa £1000, And also my underlying issue was still there. So it went back. Also it was close to supernait upgrade territory. So no sense in it unless I'd heard a SN2. I then ordered a TP TC after much debate. This, I thought was another revelation, seemingly solving all my issues. Toning down the glare and the digital tizz. Smoothing the sound a lot. So I kept the TP TC for a month or so. It did change the sound though. My girlfriend commented unhappily about the change. But to me the tizz was dimmed a little and sound warmer. So I was partly happier.
Again I still wasn't content. It was only at this point that I started looking into isolation of the iMac / USB ports / optical etc. And also audio grade music store servers/players. Reading about things like Melco N1A, Innuos Zenith and other smaller things like Intona, Regen, Micro Rendu etc. I spoke to my dealer who told me about the Innuos Zen Mini and how good it was. But was looking a bit higher up the ladder. I then saw Innuos' Zenith flagship which has only recently been released. I emailed Innuos and they had one dropped to my dealer in a matter of days. This was a gobsmack moment in terms of sound quality improvement. I had lined up a Melco N1A to come for demo too. But the distributor forgot to send the demo. By this point I had already been blown away by the practicality, ease of use, service and sound of the Zenith that I had agreed a price Andy pick up date two days later - along with my new Hugo. So I cancelled the late delivery of the Melco and went with my gut.
After about two weeks, I decided, for a laugh, to take the TPTC off of the Nait Xs2, and whereas before I couldn't bare the bare Xs2 amp, i found the TC actually changed the Naim sound in a way I didn't really like. It was much fresher without and and more musical. With a more solid image and heavier bass. Girlfriend much happier too. However this could only happen due to the ultra low noise and features of the Innuos Zenith. Putting the mac back in meant meltdown again. I was cap free and loving my Xs2 bare for first time.
Having been through the mill, I had to still try the Melco N1A, because of the rave reviews and the cheaper price. So I went back to the distributor and got one sent out. Assuming it was going to trump the Innuos Zenith (Direct USB vs Direct USB) . First 8 tracks and my gut feeling was; "The Melco is not as involving as the Innuos Zenith, no way". But I did further listening and my feeling changed briefly with faster tracks. Feeling like the Melco was tighter in some way with a tighter, harder beat but less depth. After extensive listening I came to the clear conclusion that the Melco was smoother, but clearly much less dynamic. Actually being coloured quite a lot to sound smoother. Like I was losing a lot of the music. Limiting the dynamic range quite obviously. The soundstage was much smaller on the Melco. So I kept the Innuos Zenith and since I see and hear that it's gainining great support in the hifi world.
I also faffed around with various other little boxes during this period. At one point I bought a Gustard U12 SPDIF convertor. Tried this on the iMac and Zenith. The iMac route was clearly sub standard. So I gave up on that completely. However at first I found the U12 USB to Optical conversion into my Hugo from the Zenith to be more pleasing. Finding it smoother and with more natural flow. But I felt like something was missing. After speaking to a couple of people in the know, they talked to me about how optical is limited in it's application and that it might well provide for a slightly diffuse sound, alluding to being softer and more organic. But that it would come at the expense of dynamics and involvement. Indeed it did. One chap here, even used the word "strangles the music" into the Hugo when he tested. Switching back to USB from the Zenith to the Hugo clarified this. So the Gustard went off for resale. I did tried Coax but for me this felt a bit rapier than USB. I tried this on the Melco too. Again Melco direct USB was better than the Gustard in the chain. But the Zenith infinitely more impressive than all other setups. I did try substituting the Mac for MacBook Pro at one point running on batteries but this made little difference. Just sounding quieter.
Other things tried, included jitterbugs. Couldn't even get that to carry a signal. Maybe faulty.
Lastly I ordered an Uptone Regen, and a TP 7/2 to try again with the iMac and the Zenith. Same again on the iMac, sounded flawed. So gave up on that. Switching to the Regen using two short USB cables into the Zenith > Hugo chain. Now this took things to a really dynamically new level. Loads of verve and flow. Quite brilliant. However... big BUT time... I sat listening to this over a few hours one night and found my ears getting achy. Like my ear drums were being pressed. Even when turned down the voices were aggravating my ears. I wouldn't say it was a harsh sound. Quite smooth. But something just sounded a tad forward and incisive. Quite subtle but enough for fatigue to occur over an hour or so.
I took the Regen and the TP PSU out of the chain, going back to the Innuos Zenith direct over USB short cable into the Hugo and the sound flowed still but without the forwardness and ear jarring edge. Now the music plays on a lovely level. Without the glare / accentuation that the Regen seemed to add.
So that brings me to:
Innuos Zenith > Short stock USB > Hugo > Chord Shawline RCA > Nait XS2 > Chord Odyssey > Proac 118.
I now find this to be a very nice system. I am tempted to put the Flat Cap Xs back into this now as I think that'd make a great addition to the system now it's hash free, but I want to hear a SN2. I would like a little less obvious detail to be honest. But this is now slight preference level of thinking rather than fundamental problems with noise and digitalness. Much progress in little time. I feel now I can enjoy experimenting with different DACs, amps and speakers at leisure.
The reason I wanted to share this is I am sure others will go on this journey. Spending vast amounts of cash trying this, that and the other won't get you there fast. My recommendation to others would be to avoid all of this (pcs/macs of any type) and listen to a good CD player first off with a good amp and a good pair of speakers. This should be the point of reference for any newbie. Then see if you can find something to store your digital music that at least matches that. Or if you are trying to solve things about your sound at the DAC/analogue stage of your system, look at your computer isolation first. Unless you fancy smashing a MacMini up, I'd go so far as to say, don't bother with computers that aren't designed for hifi.
Computer audio is a fecking nightmare to put it bluntly. Many of you here supercharge Mac Minis and the likes with great success. But to get a quicker idea of natural and well proportioned sound a CD player or a Naim (or other) streamer with a NAS into a Naim amp would save you a lot of pain. It's easy to cut corners thinking you can do it cheaper but ultimately you'll realise it's a waste of time and you could of go there quicker. Some people have success with little boxes, I don't deny that. But a proper music server with audio grade internals has been a revelation for me. The company Innuos are second to none for support too, quite amazing service and communication on many levels. Naim like. I know this should be obvious to many, but I came into this blind and didn't even know what an NDX was or did. That!s how new I am talking. Having only recently been able to afford to do this after buying my first house.
Finally, I recently tried an NDX between the Zenith and the Hugo and I could tell no difference to SQ to using the Zenith direct. I fact the Zenith might just have the edge. Subjective. (Also tried a CD5Xs). Both more 'Naim' sounding maybe. But not much in it. But these three combos are a long way from everything else I have tried. If I was starting from scratch I would of invested my money in the NDX / NAS with less in the speakers and the amp. Or bought a music server as a start point. I started in the wrong place with dacs and amps. I realise that now. I have no regrets on the Zenith versus NDX/CD player. It's fantastic. The very front of the system makes such a huge difference to ensuring you get a natural reflection of the recording.
Lastly, I recently invested in some acoustic panels, after putting it off for a long time. Should of done that a long time ago too. Incredible what a few panels and a couple of bass traps do to the solidity, cleanliness and refinement of audio quality. Much more enjoyable without the echoes, which at first I 'couldn't hear'. I know what reflected audio sounds like now alright.
Anyway, I hope this helps. I appreciate it's a lot to do with system/room/taste relevance but I would of loved to komen all this 6 Monti's ago. Now I can try out other dacs, amps, speakers with confidence that the front end is clean and tidy.
Oh, and if You think people are being excessive here with their suggestions of expensive solutions. They're not. You really do get what you pay for. Naim/quality stuff, just tends to work!
Cheers
Adam
A bit harsh to blame Computer Audio for all your problems - From your comprehensive write up, it looks like you had a lot more issues to deal with (room problems and the system not sounding as you'd heard it first at the dealers) so lots of sticking plasters were applied to get the system working well rather than getting the fundamentals right first.
It doesn't matter how you front the system (Vinyl, CD, Streaming), getting the basics right to start with still applies.
Anyway glad you seem to have got yourself sorted so enjoy your system 
james n posted:A bit harsh to blame Computer Audio for all your problems - From your comprehensive write up, it looks like you had a lot more issues to deal with (room problems and the system not sounding as you'd heard it first at the dealers) so lots of sticking plasters were applied to get the system working well rather than getting the fundamentals right first.
It doesn't matter how you front the system (Vinyl, CD, Streaming), getting the basics right to start with still applies.
Anyway glad you seem to have got yourself sorted so enjoy your system
Cheers. There were a few factors. But the room stuff didn't solve the main issues. This was definitely down to noise in the system. Lots of sibilance and screetching to the sound that made me wince. With a cold, empty and clinical sound. This was 95% solved by a proper music server/NDX or CD input.
An imac, a borrowed "non-fiddled with" mac mini, a macbook pro and pc latop all caused the same issues with no other variables. Even with little boxes between they dont get close to quality sound.
As I said. Computer audio can be done be done well, judging but the success of others here (depending on your expectations of natural). But there 's a much easier way to get to amazing. Just costs more!