That's a hard one, and particularly hard to guess without listening to it.

However...

The PMC GB1s aren't a difficult speaker to drive, and the power amp in the SU certainly won't be struggling to drive them, so that doesn't force the decision toward the 250 first.

There's a lot more detail and musical subtlety from the 272 than the streamer / pre-amp of the SU, so personally I'd be inclined to get the 272 first.  This is similar to my situation where I'm running a 272 into the power-amp section of a Nait XS.

On the other hand, if your main musical sources are iRadio and Spotify rather than WAVE files via UPnP over Ethernet, then you're hardly exploiting the musical quality of the SU let alone a 272.  So maybe what you prefer in the 272 / 250DR combination is the different sound signature of the 250?

Thanks for your reply, Huge!

I have the Uniti but the SU had been on my list at one point and I did listen to it and loved it but felt that longer term I would hanker after the NAP250 as I want to explore the separates as next step in the process and the 250DR will give me plenty of options for system building. Regarding the PMC GB1s - you are right, they are so easy to drive and I use them in my other system with a Qute - the synergy between the two is amazing.

For my main system though I will continue using the nSats and I get your point of going for the 250 first (although the SU is significantly better than the humble Uniti) so I will see when demoing eventually.  Anyhow, this is the exciting part - trying to see what combination would work best.

Thanks again!

Vik

Vik71,

The "source first" aproach would be to go for the N272 first and change the power amp later.  In your case your sources, iRadio and Spotify, are compressed music.  You really should audition your possible choices using these sources to decide which approach to take, or even whether you are better to save your money.

source first start from the material played right? get tidal hifi at least to enjoy at potential the 272...

a 272 is the way to go, in my opinion. however, i'd then sell the Uniti and use the funds to buy a secondhand amp. unless i'm mistaken about s/h values, you could get a 200 with the money you'd free up by selling the Uniti. then you'd have a cracking system on your hands -- many on here give the impression that they'd take their N-Sats to the grave...

Emre posted:

source first start from the material played right? 

So, so right. I can't see the point in spending all the money otherwise.

yes, for me Tidal would be a prerequisite if getting the 272. though i'm listening to internet radio right now and am plenty happy!

Interesting comments about the GB1, which I found to be about as dynamic as a lettuce without a NAP200 or SuperUniti up them....

As to the main dilemma I would add a 250DR and swap the Uniti for a 272 at a later date, so long as that date isn't too much later. If it was quite a while off, I'd buy the 272 and swap the Uniti for a used non-DR 200, which could be swapped for a 250DR at a later date. That said, if the nSats are a long term speaker choice, I'd be tempted to just stick with the 200. 

joe9407 posted:

yes, for me Tidal would be a prerequisite if getting the 272. though i'm listening to internet radio right now and am plenty happy!

I'm using a 272/250 and am listening to a 24bit 96k download and the sound quality is astonishing. Even standard cd rips playing from the NAS sound significantly better than Tidal on my setup, and as for Spotify, it's just awful. Ok for discovering new music but for serious listening, no. If the OP is just going to use internet radio and Spotify, it may be best to keep the money in the bank.  

The important thing is to be absolutely sure where you want to end up. If you are sure that the 272/250DR is what you want, I wouldn't worry too much about how you get there. If you can get a good deal on an ex-dem unit from your dealer, for example, that's the one you should get while the opportunity is there.

Ask your dealer to dem some music from CD rips or downloads on a NAS, and compare them to the same tracks on Spotify. You might decide a NAS, or a Tidal subscription, is a better upgrade. 

I started with a Superuniti, and after a few years of ownership, I started to consider a move to separates. I knew I was going to go the used route as it was the only option that made financial sense to me... so essentially I just monitored the used market and waited. Patience was required, and I was willing to let stuff go if I couldn't get it at a price I could stomach.

As luck had it I came across a used 250.2 first... very lightly used and although my offer was rejected, the seller came back to me as his better offer fell through. A few months later I was able to find an older model 282 and hicap... and then totally lucked into finding someone who wanted to reduce box count and swapped my SU for an NDX straight up. Voila. Job done. The whole process went a lot faster than I anticipated... probably about 8 months... but I think I got pretty lucky as well.

Point is... if you are patient and willing to wait for the right pieces at the right price, you don't need to spend too much (relatively speaking of course).

One other note as it pertains to your original post... the SU + 250.2 provided a very nice upgrade while I waited for the other pieces... I think it's a good way to go. Don't try biamping though... I found that produced a unique kind of yuck.

A BIG Thank you, Everybody!!! It is amazing how much practical advice one can get on this forum.

To Charliep, Emre, Joe9407, Hafler30 & Chrissu:

Indeed, as my end goal is the 272/250DR. I am now inclined to think that starting with the 272 would be wiser as I can promptly add a TIDAL subscription and really tap into its fullest potential.  The N-SATs are ideal in my situation as I must have speakers close to wall due to limited space and they are truly rewarding. I used to use a RipNAS a few years ago but it gave up the ghost so once i have the new system in place a NAS will follow - at least here we have very good value devices widely available.

To Hungryhulibut:

Somehow I have a soft spot for the GB1s and the strange thing is that with the Uniti they did sound just as you describe it ok, almost,  but with the Qute it is much more focused and coherent;  true that my listening is done at low to medium levels so that may be it, but the Qute is here to stay for sure.

To Zipperheadbanjo:

I agree that patience is essential especially if one wants to take advantage of the 2nd hand market: there are a few NAP200 and 250 available at the moment as well as a SN2 and NDX with the latter being for sale at a price slightly (15%) higher than the price of a new 272. Almost pulled the trigger on a NAP300 (circa 2013 in reportedly as new condition) but I am glad I did not due it - this would have been a very long road ahead and quite costly. I may eventually resort to getting a lightly used NAP 200 or 250. Will report once changes have been made.

Regards to all

Vik71

follow up to Hungryhulibut's post:

"As to the main dilemma I would add a 250DR and swap the Uniti for a 272 at a later date, so long as that date isn't too much later. If it was quite a while off, I'd buy the 272 and swap the Uniti for a used non-DR 200, which could be swapped for a 250DR at a later date. That said, if the nSats are a long term speaker choice, I'd be tempted to just stick with the 200."

Quite a valid remark you make regarding the NAP 200, I may not have to stretch to the 250DR if the N-SATs (yes, they will stay for sure) won't show the real potential/benefit of this cracking amp. But I will still try it - such is the power of suggestion.

Thanks again!

Vik71

Had my gb1's for 6 yrs and they have been great on 150x/SN1 & 2/200. 

Currently have 272+200 (non DR) and looking forward to the 250 when I've sold my home in next few weeks or so.  I hope it's as good as all the hype! 

Perhaps XPS after that.

Great to hear, Ray. I will probably sell mine in order to partially fund the250DR which I also found awesome. Meanwhile still undecided on the the source and will probably throw the Hugo TT into the mix with a pre-loved NDX and later a XPS. Hope house sells at asking price! Vik71

The other possibility ... hold off until you can demo the new Uniti Nova as an alternative.

You are right, Eloise, this could be an option, but it will only be available in Q1 of next year. Anyhow, the great thing about our hobby is that kit can easily be changed with little loss. Also I know that looks are very subjective but somehow I am still too "attached" to the classic Naim look and feel. Vik71

ray sheldon posted:

Had my gb1's for 6 yrs and they have been great on 150x/SN1 & 2/200. 

Currently have 272+200 (non DR) and looking forward to the 250 when I've sold my home in next few weeks or so.  I hope it's as good as all the hype! 

Perhaps XPS after that.

I'd be most grateful if you would post your experiences with that.  I currently have a 272 driving the poweramp section of a Nait XS 2.  This works surprisingly well mainly because my speakers are so easy to drive (min. impedance 6.8Ω) that the Nait's poweramp isn't taxed at all.

However an upgrade would still be worthwhile for increased resolution and definition and better performance at low volume.  The quandary for me is 200 or 250DR?  Given that you speakers are also an easy load for the 200, you have an analogous situation to myself.

Huge

I upgraded from a Nap200 to 250DR and the improvement was significant, this was into Kudos C20's. It is an upgrade I wholly recommend. 

I don't think the easy load matters, the 250 is just so much better, it will make your speakers seem twice the size.

However, given the price difference you are a long way towards funding a used XPS2 which would an interesting comparison, i.e. 272/250dr vs 272/XPS/200. 

Richard

Huge,

I went from 200 to 250DR but driving B&W 803D3 speakers so not quite the same as your own situation;

... but the improvements are not just about speaker loading but rather more control of detail, bass and tonal depth.

You also mention listening at lower volumes; I find the handling of dynamics by the 250DR can be heard over  a bigger volume range than with the 200 so you still get the musical dynamics even at lower volumes.

Defintely not hype in my experience, a real step up.

Allan

Allan Milne posted:

 

Huge,

I went from 200 to 250DR but driving B&W 803D3 speakers so not quite the same as your own situation;

... but the improvements are not just about speaker loading but rather more control of detail, bass and tonal depth.

You also mention listening at lower volumes; I find the handling of dynamics by the 250DR can be heard over  a bigger volume range than with the 200 so you still get the musical dynamics even at lower volumes.

Defintely not hype in my experience, a real step up.

Allan

 

Good comment. Generally it seems the better the power amp the better the listening is at low volumes

I am the ripe old age of 77 and buying hifi for the past 45 years.  Owned some pretty exotic stuff in that time and for many years would only use valve gear.  Until about 3 - 4 years ago streaming was frowned upon...by me.  I owned some olive gear many years ago.  I think 42/140/HiCap.  Also had a couple of Dac V's.

Decided to get off the valve treadmill and also started streaming and had various SS amps up to the £9300 Lavardin IT-15 and streamers up to a silly expensive Weiss.  Never felt completely satisfied.

Enter Naim.  Started with 172 but soon went to the 272 mainly for the quality of the pre.  I was disappointed with the Naim integrateds so went for the 200DR.  Very nice but maybe a little too nice.  Upgraded to the current 250DR.  A huge step up.   What wonderful synergy!  I stream most of the music from my NAS playing in WAV via Minimserver. Also use Spotify and iRadio (mostly high bit rate).   I can honestly say that the enjoyment I get from 250DR/272 to Harbeth Super HLS5 Plus is as good as I have had from any system I have owned.  Who would have thought that after all that time using valves I would settle with Naim.  My best.....and last!!  ....move.

Richard, Allan, Allan,

Thank you all, I was very unsure about the power amp upgrades (apart from the belief that my system will benefit greatly); I was particularly unsure if it's worth going to the 250DR as they are really difficult (read: nearly impossible!) to find s/h.  For my use I believe the 250.2 would probably only be a marginal gain over a 200, whereas I had seen things that suggest that  250DR may have been a much greater gain, but I had seen little that explicitly stated that the gains I want are there.  I now have that, so thank you for clearing up this confusion.

I now think I can justify auditioning a 200 & 250 new, as there's a good chance that I can justify the £3600 (as opposed to £1000 for a s/h NAP 200).  I'm not a person who feels at all comfortable getting a dealer to set up an audition if there's almost no chance I'll buy the product, and then go and buy a s/h version of something the demoed from someone else.  Now if I do find little advantage to the 250 I can feel justified in getting the new 200 from the dealer (for £1000 more than a s/h one) because there was reasonable expectation of going for the 250.  I know that may sound odd, but that's just the way my principles work!

I do believe a power amp upgrade to either a 200 or 250DR will be a significant upgrade as currently I'm using the power amp section of a Nait XS 2 - it's surprisingly capable and almost, but not quite, equivalent of a 155XS.

Hi Alan,

Great to hear about your journey! But I somehow doubt it that it is your last move

Mine was supposed to be the Uniti even if I had just started with the humble Nait 5i at the time. Yesterday I pulled the trigger on a Hugo TT and this on the basis of auditioning it via a sub-optimal set up: was hoping to get a NAP 200 for the audition but as luck would have it the very last one had just been sold....The dealer had set the Hugo TT up with Chord Electronics Choral Prima Preamp and Mezzo 77 amp, speakers were KEF Reference 1 (source was a Cambridge Audio CD with digital out). Music played was a variety of pop, classical, rock and heavy metal, but also Naim's Sampler 7 CD.

Everything sounded good but not great - as I had expected based on the rave reviews of the TT almost everywhere. I put it down to the amplification (lack of control and grip on speakers was quite surprising) and then asked for a pair of headphones - chose the Beyerdynamic T1 and this is when all fell into place. I was stunned by everything that the TT did to my familiar tracks. I won't resort to the cliches but for me the sheer realism and the sense of being There in the music did it. And I now build my system around the Hugo TT.

Next steps are clear: NAP 250DR and eventually NDX. Until then my Qute will serve the streaming and the Uniti the amplification duties: hardly ideal, but it will do just fine for me.

Best,

Vik71