Early Impressions : Chord Epic Twin vs Naca5

Timmo1341 posted:

Sister E. posted:

Richard Dane. If you are reading this can you please delete my profile please,

Many thanks.

Why? Are you genuinely offended by HH's gentle dig? I think I understand what you were trying to convey, but you have to admit it's a 'lazy phrase', leaving the receiver free to place multiple interpretations on it, and therefore ultimately is meaningless. It may well have qualified for inclusion in the games of 'Bullshit Bingo' I and a few colleagues used to play in project board meetings!

I think it's important to take a bite of the reality sandwich here. Different people like different cables.

For what it's worth, I used Chord Odyssey for a year and initially thought it was great. The music was neat and tidy, with everything in its place. But ultimately it became uninvolving and I went back to boring old A5. The Epic is Odyssey with fancy outerwear, so one would perhaps expect it to be similar. But that's not to say whether it's better or worse. It's neither. It's just different. 

Sister E. posted:

Richard Dane. If you are reading this can you please delete my profile please,

Many thanks.

[@mention:1566878603945950] - That would be a great shame. 

Nihil Illegitemae carborundum.

Timmo1341 posted:

Sister E. posted:

Richard Dane. If you are reading this can you please delete my profile please,

Many thanks.

Why? Are you genuinely offended by HH's gentle dig? I think I understand what you were trying to convey, but you have to admit it's a 'lazy phrase', leaving the receiver free to place multiple interpretations on it, and therefore ultimately is meaningless. It may well have qualified for inclusion in the games of 'Bullshit Bingo' I and a few colleagues used to play in project board meetings!

But who wants to be a member of a club where they don't like the way they are spoken to? Exactly. No one.

C.

ianrobertm posted:

Sister E. posted:

Richard Dane. If you are reading this can you please delete my profile please,

Many thanks.

[@mention:1566878603945950] - That would be a great shame. 

Nihil Illegitemae carborundum.

I agree - it would be a huge shame. Sister; I understand why you made this request, but many on here don't feel they have the right to express themselves however they like without considering others' feelings.

@Seth - This Is The Internet. Running a Forum is a No Win Situation. Moderate it heavily - people complain. Moderate it lightly (as per the Naim forum, IMO) - people complain. 

I hope @Sister E. will remain. I also hope others may allow people to hold their options and express their views, without feeling the need to comment or critique them. 

Incidentally, Ryder; I'm really interested in how you get on with the Chord.  

What I meant in my earlier post is that when I lived with Chord Epic twin i thought it excelled in hi-fi fireworks and made a very impressive sound. When I substituted the Naim cable the musical communications qualities which can make Naim gear so engaging returned. I can't make this any clearer so I'm sorry if some people don't understand this or think I'm talking gobbledygook. 

I couldn't care less what cable people prefer. I posted an observation based on living with the two cables for some time.

What i DO care about is the rather vicious and personal comments from a tiny minority of forum members which follow my posts sometimes. I don't need this.

Sister E. posted:

What I meant in my earlier post is that when I lived with Chord Epic twin i thought it excelled in hi-fi fireworks and made a very impressive sound. When I substituted the Naim cable the musical communications qualities which can make Naim gear so engaging returned. I can't make this any clearer so I'm sorry if some people don't understand this or think I'm talking gobbledygook. 

I couldn't care less what cable people prefer. I posted an observation based on living with the two cables for some time.

What i DO care about is the rather vicious and personal comments from a tiny minority of forum members which follow my posts sometimes. I don't need this.

Good to see you're still posting!! On the whole this is a friendly forum but I agree with your comment about the few who - being generous - seem unaware of the negative tone of their comments.

Clive

Okay mindful that it's only the cable that wires up the stereo and in the overall scheme of things not so important I have deleted my posts that might have caused  offence.  

Regards,

Lindsay

There's another thread at the moment about subjectivity, in which the difficulty of expressing in words what you can hear very clearly has come up. I for one understand the conceptual difference between "hi-fi" and "musicality" but I think I would equally struggle to make this any clearer in words. It's the difference between Linn amps (which play all the notes in the right order, but send me to sleep) and Naim amps (which set my heart racing).

*ducks for cover*

nickpeacock posted:

 *ducks for cover*

"Hi-fi" vs "musical" also makes sense to me. I often find that the more musical systems (ones that make you want to dance and smile or can bring you near to tears with sheer beauty of music or emotion in a singer's voice) are often ones that are less accurate it terms of fidelity to the signal represented by the recording data. For years, the most enjoyment I remembered having from a system was a NAC122x NAP150x CD5x system - I just enjoyed listening to the music. In those years of upgrades that sought to better that feeling, I never found that same satisfaction. I began to understand that accuracy and fidelity aren't the only magic ingredient to a great music replay system. This is actually why I buy Naim - it's not (in my view) as accurate as other brands, but get it right, and glorious music is what you get.

Sister E. posted:

What I meant in my earlier post is that when I lived with Chord Epic twin i thought it excelled in hi-fi fireworks and made a very impressive sound. When I substituted the Naim cable the musical communications qualities which can make Naim gear so engaging returned. I can't make this any clearer so I'm sorry if some people don't understand this or think I'm talking gobbledygook. 

I couldn't care less what cable people prefer. I posted an observation based on living with the two cables for some time.

What i DO care about is the rather vicious and personal comments from a tiny minority of forum members which follow my posts sometimes. I don't need this.

I am very sorry if anything I said caused you any disquiet. All I said was that a phrase you used was meaningless, which I really hope you don't take as either vicious or personal. In hindsight it would have been helpful if I had said that it was meaningless in my opinion, as others clearly do find it a useful description. There was no negative intention to you personally and the last thing I'd want to do is upset you in any way whatsoever, and I hope you will accept my apologies. 

Thank you Hungryhalibut.

Seth posted:

nickpeacock posted:

 *ducks for cover*

"Hi-fi" vs "musical" also makes sense to me. I often find that the more musical systems (ones that make you want to dance and smile or can bring you near to tears with sheer beauty of music or emotion in a singer's voice) are often ones that are less accurate it terms of fidelity to the signal represented by the recording data. For years, the most enjoyment I remembered having from a system was a NAC122x NAP150x CD5x system - I just enjoyed listening to the music. In those years of upgrades that sought to better that feeling, I never found that same satisfaction. I began to understand that accuracy and fidelity aren't the only magic ingredient to a great music replay system. This is actually why I buy Naim - it's not (in my view) as accurate as other brands, but get it right, and glorious music is what you get.

Seth, the Chord Epic hasn't been run-in yet so any observations at this point of time may not hold water. Having said that, I can surely relate to the "hi-fi" vs "musical" thing, and you may have hit the nail on the head with your remark on musical systems sounding less accurate. I certainly agree with this. I can now feel all this hi-fi vs musical talk between the Naca5 and Chord Epic, and yes the Naca5 sounds more musical as it is less accurate and detailed. The Chord Epic sounds more hi-fi as it is more refined and detailed.

Some clear observations I would like to make. The Naca5 surely has the drive. It's a bass-driven cable. The bass is much more prominent on the Naca5 as it made the Chord Epic sound light weight in the bass. The Naca5's bass is full and hard thumping while the Chord Epic's bass is a lighter and softer thud.

The thwack of drums and sound of percussion instruments sound more forward/louder with the Naca5. Imagine the band is playing on stage. With the Naca5 you are sitting in Row 2 and with the Chord Epic you are sitting in Row 7.

I can subscribe to the Naca5 being more musical, but one cannot have it all. You lose a bit of refinement and detail at the expense of musicality.

I will need more time. Both cables have their own strengths and weaknesses. In the end it may just be a case of personal preference in preferring one cable to another.

I ran both. And for a good while too. My conclusion was the naca5 was superior with drive, impact and boogie factor, slightly harsher on the treble though.

Epic was very good at smoothing every thing out across the audio-spectrum and softening the treble but at the expense of musicality to my ears, the excitement dissipated. I wouldn't use it with Naim as I think it robs Naim amplification of its signature sound.

However, for some a smoother and sweeter presentation is more 'hifi', as in all things, each to their own.

ryder. posted:

Seth, the Chord Epic hasn't been run-in yet so any observations at this point of time may not hold water. Having said that, I can surely relate to the "hi-fi" vs "musical" thing, and you may have hit the nail on the head with your remark on musical systems sounding less accurate. I certainly agree with this. I can now feel all this hi-fi vs musical talk between the Naca5 and Chord Epic, and yes the Naca5 sounds more musical as it is less accurate and detailed. The Chord Epic sounds more hi-fi as it is more refined and detailed.

Some clear observations I would like to make. The Naca5 surely has the drive. It's a bass-driven cable. The bass is much more prominent on the Naca5 as it made the Chord Epic sound light weight in the bass. The Naca5's bass is full and hard thumping while the Chord Epic's bass is a lighter and softer thud.

The thwack of drums and sound of percussion instruments sound more forward/louder with the Naca5. Imagine the band is playing on stage. With the Naca5 you are sitting in Row 2 and with the Chord Epic you are sitting in Row 7.

I can subscribe to the Naca5 being more musical, but one cannot have it all. You lose a bit of refinement and detail at the expense of musicality.

I will need more time. Both cables have their own strengths and weaknesses. In the end it may just be a case of personal preference in preferring one cable to another.

Truth is... that "x" system I mentioned... Chord speaker cables ;-)  I do rather like the punch of NACA5 though - I am likely to miss that.  I wonder if the Chords' bass will improve with run-in?  I've just ugraded to a NAP 250DR and Sopra No. 1 and they do seem particularly well balanced with NACA5. Still wanting a little more precision if I can get away with it... so let me know how things develop.

Thanks! Seth

Yes Joexnaim, good observation which pretty much mirrors my impression. The treble is smoother with the Chord Epic. As the drive and impact of the Naca5 are superior, pianos sometimes sound a bit forced. Not exactly in a negative way as the immediacy of the sound can be appealing or addictive. The immediacy of the Naca5 contributes to the boogie factor.

The Chord Epic sounds smoother in the treble. Pianos sound smoother with the Chord Epic and my ears do not hurt as much when some piano music is playing. With the Naca5, sometimes my ears hurt and I have to turn the volume down. The sound intensity is stronger when the keys of the piano are struck.

I will need to see if the slight softening of the treble would be an issue with extended listening sessions. Despite the slightly smoother highs, the sound of the Chord Epic is still lively to my ears.

Seth posted:

Truth is... that "x" system I mentioned... Chord speaker cables ;-)  I do rather like the punch of NACA5 though - I am likely to miss that.  I wonder if the Chords' bass will improve with run-in?  I've just ugraded to a NAP 250DR and Sopra No. 1 and they do seem particularly well balanced with NACA5. Still wanting a little more precision if I can get away with it... so let me know how things develop.

Thanks! Seth

I am not sure if the bass on the Chord will improve with time. If it does improve, I hope it doesn't approach the bass quality and performance of the Naca5. The Naca5 has too much mid-bass that made certain jazz music from Fourplay sound muddy / indistinct in the lower registers. In other words, a heavy bottom. With the Chord Epic, it's a breath of fresh air as music sounds clearer and more defined with the reduced bass or mid-bass output.

Yes, the Naca5 may sound a bit imprecise next to the cables which are more detailed. Perhaps you may want to investigate the Tellurium Q Black as there were several reports that it sounded "better" than the Chord Epic. Not too sure on the details though.

Okay but to me the purpose of a Hi-Fi system is synonymous with entertainment e.g good music.  So I can't recognise a system as being "too Hi-Fi"   

I can though understand that some systems sound mechanical or robotic as opposed to say organic, natural or perhaps - the worst of digital systems as opposed to good analogue comes to mind    

Apologies if this comes over as pedantic but how I'd explain it  

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay but to me the purpose of a Hi-Fi system is synonymous with entertainment e.g good music.  So I can't recognise a system as being "too Hi-Fi"   

I can though understand that some systems sound mechanical or robotic as opposed to say organic, natural or perhaps - the worst of digital systems as opposed to good analogue comes to mind    

Apologies if this comes over as pedantic but how I'd explain it  

Regards,

Lindsay

Not pedantic... it's interesting. I guess there is an underlying assumption (prejudice!?) in my mind that some people seem to go for a sound I find unnatural and not greatly enjoyable, but that I have associated with the notion of a "hifi" sound.  

So what you are saying Mr Strat is that some hi-if's are more hi-fi and less musical and some are more musical and less hi-fi   

Seth posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay but to me the purpose of a Hi-Fi system is synonymous with entertainment e.g good music.  So I can't recognise a system as being "too Hi-Fi"   

I can though understand that some systems sound mechanical or robotic as opposed to say organic, natural or perhaps - the worst of digital systems as opposed to good analogue comes to mind    

Apologies if this comes over as pedantic but how I'd explain it  

Regards,

Lindsay

Not pedantic... it's interesting. I guess there is an underlying assumption (prejudice!?) in my mind that some people seem to go for a sound I find unnatural and not greatly enjoyable, but that I have associated with the notion of a "hifi" sound.  

That's the beauty of hi-fi and the source of most disagreements on forums, everyone's preferences are different and we all perceive music in a different way.  

It's wrong for us to assume that just because we like something then everyone should do as well.

Polarbear posted:

So what you are saying Mr Strat is that some hi-if's are more hi-fi and less musical and some are more musical and less hi-fi   

No - I'm saying I don't know what "more hi-Fi" means but I am saying that the best Hi-Fi makes John Coltrane more enjoyable   To me Hi-Fi is not in anyway the antithesis of musical but one of the same. Your system is a case in point  - very entertaining Mr B.  

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Polarbear posted:

So what you are saying Mr Strat is that some hi-if's are more hi-fi and less musical and some are more musical and less hi-fi   

No - I'm saying I don't know what "more hi-Fi" means but I am saying that the best Hi-Fi makes John Coltrane more enjoyable   To me Hi-Fi is not in anyway the antithesis of musical but one of the same. Your system is a case in point  - very entertaining Mr B.  

Your first post of 25 minutes ago explains the differences between more hi-fi and less musical perfectly, you just haven't realised it 

Polarbear posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Polarbear posted:

So what you are saying Mr Strat is that some hi-if's are more hi-fi and less musical and some are more musical and less hi-fi   

No - I'm saying I don't know what "more hi-Fi" means but I am saying that the best Hi-Fi makes John Coltrane more enjoyable   To me Hi-Fi is not in anyway the antithesis of musical but one of the same. Your system is a case in point  - very entertaining Mr B.  

Your first post of 25 minutes ago explains the differences between more hi-fi and less musical perfectly, you just haven't realised it 

No that's the point.  A mechanical robotic system is not Hi-Fi.  To my thinking etc. 

Oh and I've been using Chord wiring for many a year and to these ears it is certainly not mechanical etc.  

Now off to spend the rest of the evening in a darkened room