Early Impressions : Chord Epic Twin vs Naca5

Jude2012 posted:

FWIW, my experience of Odyssey vs Epic was an easy conclusion.  

Very strange,  the Epic is just an Odyssey with a screen.   I've tried a few demo/borrow cable changes over the last 6 months & my Odyssey is still in place.

Interesting. I've always used NACA5 and have never trialled anything else. My logic is that Naim voice their kit using NACA5, so it's more likely to offer a consistently good performance irrespective of upgrades, room or music genres. Even though it's tone control, I figure I may as well get the tone Naim was intending. 

Solid Air posted:

Interesting. I've always used NACA5 and have never trialled anything else. My logic is that Naim voice their kit using NACA5, so it's more likely to offer a consistently good performance irrespective of upgrades, room or music genres. Even though it's tone control, I figure I may as well get the tone Naim was intending. 

Err, but I don't use Naim speakers. In fact I use speakers which use Chord cables. Why would I use  NACA5?

Dave J posted:

Solid Air posted:

Interesting. I've always used NACA5 and have never trialled anything else. My logic is that Naim voice their kit using NACA5, so it's more likely to offer a consistently good performance irrespective of upgrades, room or music genres. Even though it's tone control, I figure I may as well get the tone Naim was intending. 

Err, but I don't use Naim speakers. In fact I use speakers which use Chord cables. Why would I use  NACA5?

Because Naim's amplifier designers have designed them using Naca5. (Mike-B, or someone will give you the full nine yards of technical).

C.

Christopher_M posted:

Dave J posted:

Solid Air posted:

Interesting. I've always used NACA5 and have never trialled anything else. My logic is that Naim voice their kit using NACA5, so it's more likely to offer a consistently good performance irrespective of upgrades, room or music genres. Even though it's tone control, I figure I may as well get the tone Naim was intending. 

Err, but I don't use Naim speakers. In fact I use speakers which use Chord cables. Why would I use  NACA5?

Because Naim's amplifier designers have designed them using Naca5. (Mike-B, or someone will give you the full nine yards of technical).

C.

Exactly. It's more important for SQ to suit the cable to the amp than the speaker. 

Personally I think our own ears and preferences are more important than everything else which includes what designers use when they design their products. Notwithstanding amplifier designers. Loudspeaker designers may have used specific amplifiers and cables to voice the speakers but that does not mean users need to follow what the designers use just because the speakers' performance is considered to be optimised with the exact gear that the designers use.

Having said that the NACA 5 is a good cable that is a safe choice for most if not all Naim owners who use Naim amps.

Absolutely - everyone should choose the equipment that sounds right to them. I'm just speaking personally. For me, choosing the Naim cable is one less choice I have to make. 

Christopher_M posted:

Dave J posted:

Solid Air posted:

Interesting. I've always used NACA5 and have never trialled anything else. My logic is that Naim voice their kit using NACA5, so it's more likely to offer a consistently good performance irrespective of upgrades, room or music genres. Even though it's tone control, I figure I may as well get the tone Naim was intending. 

Err, but I don't use Naim speakers. In fact I use speakers which use Chord cables. Why would I use  NACA5?

Because Naim's amplifier designers have designed them using Naca5. (Mike-B, or someone will give you the full nine yards of technical).

C.

Yet he is using a Chord cable

System is NAP 250DR, NAC 272, non-Naim "XPS" and Harbeth super HL5 Plus.  Owned lots of equipment of which some was pretty high end and the Naim/Harbeth is compelling listening.

In my previous existence i.e. pre Naim  I have used countless interconnects, speaker  and power cables.  Thankfully Naim stock power cables (tried the better Naim one and returned) are fine.  Actually I fitted a Crabtree plug on the amp cable which gave a better, more open presentation.  Yes, tried a Crabtree on the XPS too  but it was too dry then.  Interconnects are taken care of with little choice on the market.  Using WitchHat at the moment.

A favourite speaker cable with many systems has been Kimber Monocle X....yes the hosepipe!  Naim told me their equipment doesn't like Kimber.  Apparently the older Naim gear would malfunction if Kimber was used but ok with the newer stuff.  So I tried Linn LK20, Terrulium Black and currently NAC A5.  Of the three newcomers the NAC A5 is best but, in my opinion, not a patch on the Kimber.  It loses musical flow, involvement, midrange projection and being a soundstage freak the Kimber excels.  I love what the Kimber gives me but it's the old audiophool catch of "I wonder".  I have owned Chord Odyssey, Epic and Signature in days of yore and intend auditioning one of the Chord cables soon but I'm not holding my breath. 

During the last switch from the Chord Epic to the Naca5 and back to the Epic, the difference between these cables is not exactly significant but appreciable. Having said that, in my system the difference between the Chord Epic and Naca5 is more significant or tangible than the differences between power cables (Naim stock cords, Chord Power Chord, Wireworld Electra 7, Virtual Dynamics Nite II, Supra Lorad). These power cables have been rotated between components and power strips for countless times and the differences are subtle to the point of negigible.

The Chord Epic would have hit 100 hours by end of the week. I will do the Naca5 vs. Chord Epic again and reconfirm on my thoughts.

Two more thoughts:

I wish I had ears capable of discerning "subtle to the point of negligible". 

Some people must have huge amounts of spare time on their hands! Just thinking about all the effort involved in this constant switching of components leaves me exhausted and needing to lie down! Leisure time = music, not searching for the crock of gold at the end of the rainbow!

Tim

Glad I don't have ' ears capable of discerning "subtle to the point of negligible" ', I do enough tweaking to optimise where there are obvious differences, never mind subtle ones.

One time on a test tweak, I couldn't really distinguish between the two cables under test, so I left the second one there - simply because there was no point in bothering to change back to the original!

Another point about chasing crocks of gold, is that you can create so much chaos by running round in circles that when you get there, sometimes you eventually realise what you've created isn't a crock of gold but a crock of sh1t.  But then, good thing can still grow out of that!

Anyone tried Witch Hat N2 speaker cable vs NACA5? 

Moderated Post: Charles, I have edited your post.  Please note that 3rd party "SNAICs" are deemed to be modifications to Naim equipment and so discussion of same falls outside of forum AUP.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Ditto  

Quite a few years ago albeit with a CDX2/XPS rather than CDS3 and NAP 200 rather than 250DR I tried Naca A5 against my Odyssey and whilst there was a difference it was minimal - Naca slightly more visceral, Oydessy slightly smoother and open I stayed with the Chord.   

Regards,

Lindsay

I have done a final comparison between the Naca5 and Chord Epic Twin and the results are consistent with Lindsay's findings.

In summary, the Chord Epic is smoother across the frequency spectrum from top to bottom and slightly more detailed. No major difference. If one does not compare the cables back to back, one may mistakenly assume the Naca5 to be the Chord Epic and vice versa. I have done a back to back comparison ie. playing the same track once before switching cables, and the differences are not breathtakingly major to the point that one cable will make the other cable sound broken.

I did comment on the mid bass lift with the Naca5 earlier. With this final comparison, I find the difference to be minimal.

For those who find the stiffness of the Naca5 to be an issue, the Chord Epic will be a good alternative.

For what it's worth, the Chord Epic stays with the system. I find the flow in the music to be better with the Chord Epic with the added smoothness and refinement.

My experience is based on a non-Naim speaker. Folks who use Naim speakers and Naim amps may likely find the Naca5 to be a better fit.

The point about synergy with speakers is worth considering    Convention is that it is the cable/amp match that is the crucial factor but if/when I change the speakers then might be the moment to consider the cable issue.  

Regards,

Lindsay