Supernait and 250DR

wenger2015 posted:

I suggest very strongly you keep SWMBO happy,  and order a 250dr, for her benefit not yours of course 

Words of wisdom!

Happy wife, happy life

Adam Zielinski posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I suggest very strongly you keep SWMBO happy,  and order a 250dr, for her benefit not yours of course 

Words of wisdom!

Happy wife, happy life

There are more ways of keeping SWMBO happy :-)

And music could help.

Finkfan,

Could you go little bit more in to detail about the differences between SN2 and 250DR. Are they very clear or only small changes? Do you feel that the bass became more powerful with 250DR or only tighter with better control?

Patu posted:

Finkfan,

Could you go little bit more in to detail about the differences between SN2 and 250DR. Are they very clear or only small changes? Do you feel that the bass became more powerful with 250DR or only tighter with better control?

Hi [@mention:3819189062215082]. The difference between the two amps is significant! Immediately you can hear more music. Because the bass is more under control, its tighter, more agile, faster and kept in its place. This all allows more details to be heard as they're not being drowned out by big waves of bass. Vocals tones are more accurate and lifelike. Everything sounds clearer. The soundstage is larger and more 3 dimensional. It does give the impression of being more powerful, almost like a SN that's had a workout. My American speakers love the 250DR and you can really turn it up loud. Also it's just as good a low volumes. Again, clearer and more detailed than the SN amp. 

Dont get me wrong, I do love my SN. But after hearing it with a 250DR it brought a rather large smile to my face

Finkfan posted:

Patu posted:

Finkfan,

Could you go little bit more in to detail about the differences between SN2 and 250DR. Are they very clear or only small changes? Do you feel that the bass became more powerful with 250DR or only tighter with better control?

Hi [@mention:3819189062215082]. The difference between the two amps is significant! Immediately you can hear more music. Because the bass is more under control, its tighter, more agile, faster and kept in its place. This all allows more details to be heard as they're not being drowned out by big waves of bass. Vocals tones are more accurate and lifelike. Everything sounds clearer. The soundstage is larger and more 3 dimensional. It does give the impression of being more powerful, almost like a SN that's had a workout. My American speakers love the 250DR and you can really turn it up loud. Also it's just as good a low volumes. Again, clearer and more detailed than the SN amp. 

Dont get me wrong, I do love my SN. But after hearing it with a 250DR it brought a rather large smile to my face

Thank you Finkfan, it's interesting to hear detailed impressions about this combination since it's not very common setup here. And this is exactly the next step I should take also since I use SN2 + HCDR at the moment. Why I'm interested about the bass performance is that I use quite a big and power hungry speakers in a ~20m2 space (ATC SCM40v2). They're closed design so it helps a lot and the bass keeps in nice control as it is, but I noticed that not a lot needs to change and the bass goes out of control. If I removed the HCDR, SN2 is not able to drive ATC's properly and the bass is all over the place. Also when I experimented with PSU upgrade for the Naim DAC (XP5XS and one aftermarket PSU), the biggest change was insane amount of bass after the PSU upgrade. In my setup I preferred bare Naim DAC to both of the PSU upgrades. That's why I'm afraid if 250DR adds more bass to the mix, since it's the last thing I need. But if it only improves the handling of the bass then it would be a perfect addition. Should I give it a try, hmm...

Is give it a try [@mention:3819189062215082]. In my system there definitely isn't more bass. The SN1 can be a little bass heavy on some of my music but I tried those tracks with the 250DR and there's no problem at all. It made the music much more enjoyable. My Revels produce all the bass I want, if not as low as it cold be and with the 250 on board I just want to turn it up louder! 

Finkfan posted:

Is give it a try [@mention:3819189062215082]. In my system there definitely isn't more bass. The SN1 can be a little bass heavy on some of my music but I tried those tracks with the 250DR and there's no problem at all. It made the music much more enjoyable. My Revels produce all the bass I want, if not as low as it cold be and with the 250 on board I just want to turn it up louder! 

So you compared it with the original SuperNait? I used to have SN1 also before I updated it to SN2. The improvement there was also dramatic. 

Yes, I still have the SN1. I have heard the SN2 and liked it, but I'd like to go down the pre/power route. Adding a 250DR I'm sure would make a fantastic difference too. If you look back up the page PeteT15 has it. 

Patu posted:

Finkfan,

Could you go little bit more in to detail about the differences between SN2 and 250DR. Are they very clear or only small changes? Do you feel that the bass became more powerful with 250DR or only tighter with better control?

I think you have the original SN, that the OP is talking about, and a SN2 confused.

I recently did a home demo of the SN2 and 250-2 DR. There is a difference in the presentation, but the differences are not as much as this poster has expressed between the SN1 and the 250-2 DR.

By the way,  it's pretty funny that I did purchase the SN2 because of the sonic qualities used to describe the 250-2 DR.

In other words, there is quite a big difference in sound quality between the SN1 and SN2.

After using the N272/250 dr for a week earlier in the year,going back to the SN2/high cap dr was a pretty big let down for me,everything seemed rather 2 dimensional and lacking life,this prompted me to go for the 272250dr and I am very happy now... much better to my ears.

I'm seriously considering buying a Harley Davidson next year, I really really don't want to hear about how good a 250dr sounds connected to a SN2 because I really can't afford both!

Dayjay, They are both in their own right, excellent pieces of engineering.....  your just going to have to buy both 

Haha, I can see that idea going down well with Mrs DayJay.  The last time I considered the 250dr I talked myself out of it and bought an RP8 instead because I'm still enjoying my SN2 but this thread has been interesting.  I may have to borrow one from my lovely dealer and try for myself.

I've recently had a listen to Finkfans SN1/HC, and his borrowed 250dr, it's very, very impressive,  the only problem I can forsee is once you have heard it, you really won't want to send it back..

wenger2015 posted:

I've recently had a listen to Finkfans SN1/HC, and his borrowed 250dr, it's very, very impressive,  the only problem I can forsee is once you have heard it, you really won't want to send it back..

Ps..love the look of the RP8 

dayjay posted:

I'm seriously considering buying a Harley Davidson next year, I really really don't want to hear about how good a 250dr sounds connected to a SN2 because I really can't afford both!

Harley ? Just go straight for the KTM . Thats where you'll end up . Back to HiFi , the 250 DR is that good !

Patu , 

We have had quite similar set ups recently I think  , i recall you had PMC 23s ? The addition of a 250DR doesn't necessarily increase the bass but if its there it will show it , it will show everything ! Even though the SN2 and 250DR have similar power figures the 250DR feels in total control and dominance of the speakers  , I have just put in place some ATC 19s this evening ..... Very impressive !

For me,going back to the SN 2/high cap dr/and yes Hugo sounded like a good high fi stereo playing music,with the 272/250 dr it sound like a live band playing in my room...and I did not want them to leave��

dayjay posted:

I'm seriously considering buying a Harley Davidson next year, I really really don't want to hear about how good a 250dr sounds connected to a SN2 because I really can't afford both!

That is like saying I'll buy King Prawns but then I won't be able to afford beef. The 250DR is wonderful, but so is a Harley. Never had a Harley but have owned a few bikes in my time and I love my 250DR.

I'm not helping, am I?

No quarter posted:

For me,going back to the SN 2/high cap dr/and yes Hugo sounded like a good high fi stereo playing music,with the 272/250 dr it sound like a live band playing in my room...and I did not want them to leave��

Horses for courses, but my recent home demo of the 282-250-2DR, didn't warrant the 8000.00 thousand dollar difference to these ears, the SN2 was that good.

There definitely was a difference in the presentation, the 250-2DR system sounding more refined, and a little more laid back, warmer, but the Naim house sound was definitely present with both systems. The difference was not as big as I had expected it to be, and this opinion coming from a 250-2 non DR version owner not so long ago.

 

No quarter posted:

After using the N272/250 dr for a week earlier in the year,going back to the SN2/high cap dr was a pretty big let down for me,everything seemed rather 2 dimensional and lacking life,this prompted me to go for the 272250dr and I am very happy now... much better to my ears.

Interesting, what source did you use with the SN2 setup when comparing to 272/250DR? My biggest worry about 272/250DR combo is that 272 wouldn't probably be on a level of Naim DAC (as a source) which I use now. If NDX wasn't then it's difficult to believe that 272 would be.

pete T15 posted:

Patu , 

We have had quite similar set ups recently I think  , i recall you had PMC 23s ? The addition of a 250DR doesn't necessarily increase the bass but if its there it will show it , it will show everything ! Even though the SN2 and 250DR have similar power figures the 250DR feels in total control and dominance of the speakers  , I have just put in place some ATC 19s this evening ..... Very impressive !

Yes I did own 20.23 but I've used ATC SCM40v2 for over a year now. With 20.23, more bass would only be a good thing. I'm sure ATC19 is an impressive speaker also! Haven't heard one though.

Hi Patu,my source was JRiver on my laptop feeding my Unitiqute 2,using the coaxial digital out from the Qute,to my Chord Hugo...rca outs from the Hugo to rca analog ins on the SN2.All other inputs and outputs were turned off the Qute and Sn2,I also had a high cap dr on the Sn2.

pete T15 posted:

Patu , 

We have had quite similar set ups recently I think  , i recall you had PMC 23s ? The addition of a 250DR doesn't necessarily increase the bass but if its there it will show it , it will show everything ! Even though the SN2 and 250DR have similar power figures the 250DR feels in total control and dominance of the speakers  , I have just put in place some ATC 19s this evening ..... Very impressive !

I am glad you are enjoying the 19s. I own a pair of the Mk2s. You might be interested to hear I have just been evaluating the Russell K 100s.. quite different sounding the ATC 19s.. the mids sound more dominant than the ATCs, they go deeper by quite a margin, and are more resolving.. on my 252DR / Hugo based system you hear noticably  more nuance and detail than with the ATCs... I am just not entirely sure the balance of the Russel Ks is right for me. I will also be listening to the PMC 25 series, perhaps 25.21 and 25.23.. the smaller driver PMCs in the new 25 range seem be seen favourably with a less forward presentation and quite an advancement on the earlier 20 series which were not my cup of tea.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

pete T15 posted:

Patu , 

We have had quite similar set ups recently I think  , i recall you had PMC 23s ? The addition of a 250DR doesn't necessarily increase the bass but if its there it will show it , it will show everything ! Even though the SN2 and 250DR have similar power figures the 250DR feels in total control and dominance of the speakers  , I have just put in place some ATC 19s this evening ..... Very impressive !

I am glad you are enjoying the 19s. I own a pair of the Mk2s. You might be interested to hear I have just been evaluating the Russell K 100s.. quite different sounding the ATC 19s.. the mids sound more dominant than the ATCs, they go deeper by quite a margin, and are more resolving.. on my 252DR / Hugo based system you hear noticably  more nuance and detail than with the ATCs... I am just not entirely sure the balance of the Russel Ks is right for me. I will also be listening to the PMC 25 series, perhaps 25.21 and 25.23.. the smaller driver PMCs in the new 25 range seem be seen favourably with a less forward presentation and quite an advancement on the earlier 20 series which were not my cup of tea.

 

I was going to say I don't think you'll like the twenty series , very different to these ATCs.  I'm just heading to Berlin for the weekend so won't have chance for a proper listen until next week but very positive so far , the speed and clarity the first things of notice .