Supernait and 250DR
Posted by: Finkfan on 03 November 2016
I was asked to look after another forum members 250DR for a few weeks whilst he demos a 300. I didn't hesitate to agree and try it on the back of my SN. We hooked it up last night and the Immediate improvement in sound was an absolute joy to hear. I have recently added a HCDR and this I felt was a great improvement for the pre amp on the SN as many have said in the past. The 250 was a bigger step up and is a stunning amp. With improved clarity, bigger soundstage, and a much better control of the bass this amp really does project a more realistic image into the room and I really don't want to give it back! Obviously I will though, as this isn't the next box for me, but wow, I really do love what it does.
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:pete T15 posted:Patu ,
We have had quite similar set ups recently I think , i recall you had PMC 23s ? The addition of a 250DR doesn't necessarily increase the bass but if its there it will show it , it will show everything ! Even though the SN2 and 250DR have similar power figures the 250DR feels in total control and dominance of the speakers , I have just put in place some ATC 19s this evening ..... Very impressive !
I am glad you are enjoying the 19s. I own a pair of the Mk2s. You might be interested to hear I have just been evaluating the Russell K 100s.. quite different sounding the ATC 19s.. the mids sound more dominant than the ATCs, they go deeper by quite a margin, and are more resolving.. on my 252DR / Hugo based system you hear noticably more nuance and detail than with the ATCs... I am just not entirely sure the balance of the Russel Ks is right for me. I will also be listening to the PMC 25 series, perhaps 25.21 and 25.23.. the smaller driver PMCs in the new 25 range seem be seen favourably with a less forward presentation and quite an advancement on the earlier 20 series which were not my cup of tea.
Interesting comments about the Russel K 100's. This is the first time I hear about this speaker.
Please report about your findings about 25.23. It's an interesting model and coming from 20.23, it would be nice to know exactly how much they improved. 20.23 was demolished by SCM40v2 so the improvement should be huge.
Just a thought......
when I had the 250 I obviously connected it to the HCDR. Could it have been connected to the pre out din on the SN? Would this avoid using the audio that travels down the snaic and would this improve the sound at all?
Clarification
im talking about the bi amp pre out. Or does this not work unless the snaic 4 goes back in to the SN?
If using a Hicap you connect the power amp to the Hicap. If not using a Hicap you connect it to the biamp socket.
I just wondered if the audio coming down the snaic and into the HCDR and then back out was being degraded? Wouldn't it be better to use the pre out? Or can't it be done?
Well after a short absence and thanks to the worlds greatest father in law, the 250DR is back and here to stay. Another significant step up the ladder. Just as experienced on the 250 as pre into 250DR thread, the improvement in low volume listening is profound. One of the many great things the 250 provides. Looking forward to having a good listen over the Christmas break.
wenger2015 posted:Dayjay, They are both in their own right, excellent pieces of engineering..... your just going to have to buy both
Harley's are dreadful pieces of incompetent engineering.
And I own a vrod night rod special and love it
Patu posted:No quarter posted:After using the N272/250 dr for a week earlier in the year,going back to the SN2/high cap dr was a pretty big let down for me,everything seemed rather 2 dimensional and lacking life,this prompted me to go for the 272250dr and I am very happy now... much better to my ears.
Interesting, what source did you use with the SN2 setup when comparing to 272/250DR? My biggest worry about 272/250DR combo is that 272 wouldn't probably be on a level of Naim DAC (as a source) which I use now. If NDX wasn't then it's difficult to believe that 272 would be.
Obviously nowhere near any Naim streamer, let alone a Naim dac which would really improve any of them.
Patu posted:pete T15 posted:Patu ,
We have had quite similar set ups recently I think , i recall you had PMC 23s ? The addition of a 250DR doesn't necessarily increase the bass but if its there it will show it , it will show everything ! Even though the SN2 and 250DR have similar power figures the 250DR feels in total control and dominance of the speakers , I have just put in place some ATC 19s this evening ..... Very impressive !
Yes I did own 20.23 but I've used ATC SCM40v2 for over a year now. With 20.23, more bass would only be a good thing. I'm sure ATC19 is an impressive speaker also! Haven't heard one though.
Patu, You may find my experience informative. I had the SCM 7s on the end of a 150 for the better part of a year. It was a good sounding combo, but it always felt like the 7s were asking for more. Last week I replaced the 150 with an olive 250 and they finally came alive. It got me thinking - should I eventually upgrade to the 40s? I asked one of my good friends, who has a pair of 40s, if he thought the 250 was up to the task and he said no. Not enough power. If he was right, that would seem to imply a Supernait alone would not do the truck, but I'm curious - how has your experience been?
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:pete T15 posted:Patu ,
We have had quite similar set ups recently I think , i recall you had PMC 23s ? The addition of a 250DR doesn't necessarily increase the bass but if its there it will show it , it will show everything ! Even though the SN2 and 250DR have similar power figures the 250DR feels in total control and dominance of the speakers , I have just put in place some ATC 19s this evening ..... Very impressive !
I am glad you are enjoying the 19s. I own a pair of the Mk2s. You might be interested to hear I have just been evaluating the Russell K 100s.. quite different sounding the ATC 19s.. the mids sound more dominant than the ATCs, they go deeper by quite a margin, and are more resolving.. on my 252DR / Hugo based system you hear noticably more nuance and detail than with the ATCs... I am just not entirely sure the balance of the Russel Ks is right for me. I will also be listening to the PMC 25 series, perhaps 25.21 and 25.23.. the smaller driver PMCs in the new 25 range seem be seen favourably with a less forward presentation and quite an advancement on the earlier 20 series which were not my cup of tea.
Simon, I have a pair of 7s. I think they're incredible for the money, and also on an absolute basis. I saw Jon's comment elsewhere to the effect that the 19s were stunning. In thinking about future upgrade paths, I wonder how much of a step up they are from the 7s. Did you have a chance to compare the 19s against any of their other speakers? Do you ever feel like your 250 is not enough for them?
Antonio1 posted:Patu posted:No quarter posted:After using the N272/250 dr for a week earlier in the year,going back to the SN2/high cap dr was a pretty big let down for me,everything seemed rather 2 dimensional and lacking life,this prompted me to go for the 272250dr and I am very happy now... much better to my ears.
Interesting, what source did you use with the SN2 setup when comparing to 272/250DR? My biggest worry about 272/250DR combo is that 272 wouldn't probably be on a level of Naim DAC (as a source) which I use now. If NDX wasn't then it's difficult to believe that 272 would be.
Obviously nowhere near any Naim streamer, let alone a Naim dac which would really improve any of them.
N272 is "obviously" nowhere near an ND5XS? NDX? Source of info?
jon honeyball posted:wenger2015 posted:Dayjay, They are both in their own right, excellent pieces of engineering..... your just going to have to buy both
Harley's are dreadful pieces of incompetent engineering.
And I own a vrod night rod special and love it
Debatable to say the least...
Finkfan posted:Well after a short absence and thanks to the worlds greatest father in law, the 250DR is back and here to stay. Another significant step up the ladder. Just as experienced on the 250 as pre into 250DR thread, the improvement in low volume listening is profound. One of the many great things the 250 provides. Looking forward to having a good listen over the Christmas break.
Congratulations on the 250dr, as you say a significant step up, I think your going to be very happy with the new box, you must give us your impressions as the new box beds itself in......happy days
Bart posted:Antonio1 posted:Patu posted:No quarter posted:After using the N272/250 dr for a week earlier in the year,going back to the SN2/high cap dr was a pretty big let down for me,everything seemed rather 2 dimensional and lacking life,this prompted me to go for the 272250dr and I am very happy now... much better to my ears.
Interesting, what source did you use with the SN2 setup when comparing to 272/250DR? My biggest worry about 272/250DR combo is that 272 wouldn't probably be on a level of Naim DAC (as a source) which I use now. If NDX wasn't then it's difficult to believe that 272 would be.
Obviously nowhere near any Naim streamer, let alone a Naim dac which would really improve any of them.
N272 is "obviously" nowhere near an ND5XS? NDX? Source of info?
Based on what I read which is also consistent with my experiences in demoing the 272, the DAC in the 272 appears to be the weak link in the package - a downgrade from the nDac and to my ears, from the NDX as well. This shouldn't be a surprise though, given the price differences. The 272, as a package, is still good value for money.
Here is Whathifi had to say about 272's various internal components, which I thought was pretty spot on based on my limited experiences listening to the 272 at dealer's.
"We would happily put the Naim’s preamp section up against any stand-alone rival in the £1000 to £1500 price range without fear. The DAC section would be one of the better performers below the grand mark."
ngarritson posted:Patu posted:pete T15 posted:Patu ,
We have had quite similar set ups recently I think , i recall you had PMC 23s ? The addition of a 250DR doesn't necessarily increase the bass but if its there it will show it , it will show everything ! Even though the SN2 and 250DR have similar power figures the 250DR feels in total control and dominance of the speakers , I have just put in place some ATC 19s this evening ..... Very impressive !
Yes I did own 20.23 but I've used ATC SCM40v2 for over a year now. With 20.23, more bass would only be a good thing. I'm sure ATC19 is an impressive speaker also! Haven't heard one though.
Patu, You may find my experience informative. I had the SCM 7s on the end of a 150 for the better part of a year. It was a good sounding combo, but it always felt like the 7s were asking for more. Last week I replaced the 150 with an olive 250 and they finally came alive. It got me thinking - should I eventually upgrade to the 40s? I asked one of my good friends, who has a pair of 40s, if he thought the 250 was up to the task and he said no. Not enough power. If he was right, that would seem to imply a Supernait alone would not do the truck, but I'm curious - how has your experience been?
Thanks for the input. Indeed, SN2 alone is too weak to drive 40's properly but with HCDR things change quite a bit. I'm sure 250DR would improve things but SN2 with HCDR is surprisingly powerful combo.