Vertere HB-Pulse ethernet cable

greekspec2 posted:

maybe there referencing backwards compatibility? what AQ say's 

Maybe,  but who knows,  its just not correct.  TIA/EIA-568 compliance is very specific & the higher number's are backwards compatible & if it performs to Cat7 thats all that needs to be said.   But I somehow doubt it with those Telegartner's as the small PCB tracks they have to connect wires to pins are straight (they don't carry the twisted pair conformity) & probably raise crosstalk above Cat7 levels,  hence Telegartner sell them as Cat6A.    But whatever,  if they sound good to you on your system,  & you're willing to pay,  nothing more to say 

http://www.rutherfordaudio.com...able-rj45-connector/

almost 2500$ for the ethernet cable ?? is it not too far? 

We do seem to get hung up on whether an ethernet cable is Cat 5, 6 6A or 7, but surely these categories are not directly related to how these cables might sound in a digital audio system. The categories were presumably devised for another specification entirely, which may or may not relate to how they 'sound'. Of course some will assert that ethernet cables all sound the same and it is all snake oil. Others will 'know' they do have an influence on sound reproduction from the actual experience of using different ethernet cables.

Let's assume for one minute that you are a believer camp. Some have found the optimal ethernet cables are in fact of a 'lower' category (Cat 5 or 6 for example) with 'basic' plugs attached. Some prefer screened other prefer unscreened. So there is some evidence to indicate that the construction, category and quality of plugs of an ethernet cable are not the primary explanation of how that cable might 'sound' in a particular digital audio system.

If you have some sympathy with this argument, then it indicates there are other factors (some of which we may have little understanding of) that influence how a particular ethernet cable might perform in an audio system.

I did say in an earlier post, and I quote, 'Always up for nonsensical discussion about expensive ethernet cables.'

Dives for cover.

Kacper posted:

http://www.rutherfordaudio.com...able-rj45-connector/

almost 2500$ for the ethernet cable ?? is it not too far? 

That's outdated pricing it cost me $1380usd same price as a AQ Diamond 1.5m....it's pretty much free to demo most cables so what do most have to lose?

With the price of top end equipment like Naim, I see no issue paying that for cables that improves the sound quality!  

Nigelb, from my perspective the only thing I am hung up with is the price without clear details of what you are buying. The example of Cat 5/6/7 was to draw attention there is no real detail of what it is you are buying. Ethernet cables, like USB and SPDIF cables don't in them selves sound different, it's the coupling of them to attached equipment.. in this case audio equipment that can change the sound from rhe equipment.

Therefore in my opinion the only objective thing can be said is detailed specifications that the cable complies with, the construction type, which looks quite standard in this case, and those pieces of equipment the cable was assessed against and optimised for SQ.

The TI engineering paper on Ethernet cable and interface coupling I have posted here a few times describes to some extent why this cable equipment coupling happens and how to mitigate it. TIs view appears to be the cable effect is largely down to the connected equipment design. Therefore the effect of the cable will be down to its connections and environment... and a given cable could quite easily detract from overeall SQ in a given setup... The cable, I say, is acting as a variable/runnable RF impedance and Electromagneric coupler and load to the connected equipment. Through trial and  error I am convinced you can achieve similar effects for a few pounds... so if the £1350 reflects the value of the time required for the trial and error for consumers with busy lifestyles I sort of get that... but underlines more to state what equipment and environment the cable is optimised for.

However fortunately those with more time and a little applied knowledge and perhaps less deep pockets could I suspect achieve the same or better performance for a few pounds and experimentation.

Simon, my frivolous 'hung up' quip wasn't aimed at you, but rather a clumsy way of me badly making the point that Ethernet cable specs can only tell us so much regarding how a particular ethernet cable might sound. I do agree the spec can give an indication of the quality of an Ethernet cable and some justification (or otherwise) of it's cost.

But I feel there could be additional factors that affect how an Ethernet cable performs sonically, some of which are poorly understood. Why do I say this? Well several of us have different experiences using the same Ethernet cables. Some swear than expensive cables do contribute something worthwhile, others will say they hear little or no benefit. The one thing in all this that is constant is that we are all using these cables in different set ups and different environments. It might just be that we are all correct in our views and 'other factors' are influencing the SQ achieved by a particular Ethernet cable. 

I agree that the connected equipment will also play a part in how an Ethernet cable might perform in an aural sense. The environment (the presence of noise and interference from a variety of sources) in which the ethernet cable operates too is likely to affect that cable's performance. 

It does seem perplexing to me that Ethernet cables seem to divide opinion like no other component.

Let the nonsense continue!

musicfan51 posted:

With the price of top end equipment like Naim, I see no issue paying that for cables that improves the sound quality!  

Of Course, cables improves the sound quality - there is no doubt about that! But for god's sake! sometimes for the price of expensive cable you can buy nice timepiece :-D LoL

Kacper posted:

musicfan51 posted:

With the price of top end equipment like Naim, I see no issue paying that for cables that improves the sound quality!  

Of Course, cables improves the sound quality - there is no doubt about that! But for god's sake! sometimes for the price of expensive cable you can buy nice timepiece :-D LoL

We all are in pursuit of the best sound quality and sometimes we can get carried away! But it is  a fun hobby. An expensive fun hobby!  With what I have spent on stereo gear I could have a darn nice automobile. But hey,  I love my music ! 

Kacper posted:

musicfan51 posted:

With the price of top end equipment like Naim, I see no issue paying that for cables that improves the sound quality!  

Of Course, cables improves the sound quality - there is no doubt about that! But for god's sake! sometimes for the price of expensive cable you can buy nice timepiece :-D LoL

Funny you mention that,  cause when I bought the Chord Sarum Super Aray interconnect for my Naim NDS I had to decide between a really nice watch or the interconnect. Still wearing the old watch ! Ha! 

musicfan51 posted:

Kacper posted:

musicfan51 posted:

With the price of top end equipment like Naim, I see no issue paying that for cables that improves the sound quality!  

Of Course, cables improves the sound quality - there is no doubt about that! But for god's sake! sometimes for the price of expensive cable you can buy nice timepiece :-D LoL

Funny you mention that,  cause when I bought the Chord Sarum Super Aray interconnect for my Naim NDS I had to decide between a really nice watch or the interconnect. Still wearing the old watch ! Ha! 

 :-D I love my stereo equipment and audio hobby like most of us in here, holding some expensive cables as well. I'm just wondering sometimes what makes some cables so expensive?! I know that good timepiece is kind of masterpiece and cables...hmmm.

Kacper posted:

musicfan51 posted:

Kacper posted:

musicfan51 posted:

With the price of top end equipment like Naim, I see no issue paying that for cables that improves the sound quality!  

Of Course, cables improves the sound quality - there is no doubt about that! But for god's sake! sometimes for the price of expensive cable you can buy nice timepiece :-D LoL

Funny you mention that,  cause when I bought the Chord Sarum Super Aray interconnect for my Naim NDS I had to decide between a really nice watch or the interconnect. Still wearing the old watch ! Ha! 

 :-D I love my stereo equipment and audio hobby like most of us in here, holding some expensive cables as well. I'm just wondering sometimes what makes some cables so expensive?! I know that good timepiece is kind of masterpiece and cables...hmmm.

The Chord Super Sarum interconnect did improve the sound of my system. Was it worth the money over having a nicer watch ?  I thought it was. I bought an NDS over getting an NDX and have not reqretted that either. But it is all priorities isn't it. Some friends buy the top BMW for $85,000. I have a nice vehicle but not a top BMW. But I do have a great stereo system! Priorities. Some friends pay top dollar for a boat. If you hobby is stereos you are always looking to improve the sound. I am. 

Im guilty of both...

greekspec2 posted:

Im guilty of both...

Thumbs up! 

greekspec2 posted:

Im guilty of both...

Well with Trump winning tonight and the World markets dropping, I might not being buying any expensive Naim toys or cables for awhile. Hope  the markets do not drop too far. 

haha I see we disagree on something......

greekspec2 posted:

haha I see we disagree on something......

Well if he tries to get rid of free trade the stock market will not react well. Feel free to disagree, but I will hold back major purchases till I see what happens. Discussing  Politics is a slippery slope so best to just end it! 

agree.....not sure where in the states you spent most of your life but me being a San Francisco Bay Area native my whole life I say no more...but I love what my Vertere cable is doing for my system

musicfan51 posted:

Kacper posted:

musicfan51 posted:

With the price of top end equipment like Naim, I see no issue paying that for cables that improves the sound quality!  

Of Course, cables improves the sound quality - there is no doubt about that! But for god's sake! sometimes for the price of expensive cable you can buy nice timepiece :-D LoL

Funny you mention that,  cause when I bought the Chord Sarum Super Aray interconnect for my Naim NDS I had to decide between a really nice watch or the interconnect. Still wearing the old watch ! Ha! 

expensive watch is a good analogy...

are we just buying a more expensive and shinny version of something actually doing the same job? just a ego boost? 

i like to think that every dime i spend will be to get a better sound that i can be happy for a long time.... 

so thats why i am looking for a genuine improvement rather than "snake oil -  better to have", i a belden cable can do the same job of an expensive ethernet cable why pay more...

Emre posted:

musicfan51 posted:

Kacper posted:

musicfan51 posted:

With the price of top end equipment like Naim, I see no issue paying that for cables that improves the sound quality!  

Of Course, cables improves the sound quality - there is no doubt about that! But for god's sake! sometimes for the price of expensive cable you can buy nice timepiece :-D LoL

Funny you mention that,  cause when I bought the Chord Sarum Super Aray interconnect for my Naim NDS I had to decide between a really nice watch or the interconnect. Still wearing the old watch ! Ha! 

expensive watch is a good analogy...

are we just buying a more expensive and shinny version of something actually doing the same job? just a ego boost? 

i like to think that every dime i spend will be to get a better sound that i can be happy for a long time.... 

so thats why i am looking for a genuine improvement rather than "snake oil -  better to have", i a belden cable can do the same job of an expensive ethernet cable why pay more...

If you have the money you should spend it  however you want on your system! I make no judgements! 

nigelb posted:

Simon, my frivolous 'hung up' quip wasn't aimed at you, but rather a clumsy way of me badly making the point that Ethernet cable specs can only tell us so much regarding how a particular ethernet cable might sound. I do agree the spec can give an indication of the quality of an Ethernet cable and some justification (or otherwise) of it's cost.

But I feel there could be additional factors that affect how an Ethernet cable performs sonically, some of which are poorly understood. Why do I say this? Well several of us have different experiences using the same Ethernet cables. Some swear than expensive cables do contribute something worthwhile, others will say they hear little or no benefit. The one thing in all this that is constant is that we are all using these cables in different set ups and different environments. It might just be that we are all correct in our views and 'other factors' are influencing the SQ achieved by a particular Ethernet cable. 

I agree that the connected equipment will also play a part in how an Ethernet cable might perform in an aural sense. The environment (the presence of noise and interference from a variety of sources) in which the ethernet cable operates too is likely to affect that cable's performance. 

It does seem perplexing to me that Ethernet cables seem to divide opinion like no other component.

Let the nonsense continue!

I don't think it's poorly understood at all, the effects are driven by solid RF engineering and physics, however there are many many variables that contribute to the effect which can make it somewhat unknown what a particular outcome may be. Any cable carrying and coupling RF voltages to connected equipment will affect that equipment to some extent, whether its USB, SPDIF, HDMI or BaseT Ethernet.

Simon

Hin NigelB,  re your comment on poorly understood;   the only thing that is poorly understood IMO is whats going on in peoples heads.  I have no doubt an ethernet cable can change system sound (notice I didn't say sound quality)   but how it gets reported & the value put on the change is the variable.    The rest is 100% as per Simon

Poorly understanding what is going on in peoples heads, we must admit that something is causing this.

Knowing physical laws and design and produce a cable with this is IMO just step 1.

Our detection system (brain) is capable of hearing sound differences well below noise floors and no measurement system is capable of doing the same.

Which cable sounds best and why ? :

Our individual brain tells us which cable sound we prefer (no verifiable truth).

Concerning the "why" we don't have the faintest idea (not measurable, not verifiable)

 We might not understand physical laws as good as we think we do. 

So ethernet cables or hifi cables are new "modern art"

Emre posted:

So ethernet cables or hifi cables are new "modern art"

Hi Emre,

I don't think it has anything to do with "modern" art, but agree on the analogy with "art". Why do we like that art?, why do we like that wine?,that food?, that clothes? that smell? that music?  It is not measurable; it's just because our individual brain tells us we like it and we try to explain to others in "rational" arguments............

Peter