Adding a new source. CD or ?

Presuming you have a PC or a Mac get dBpoweramp and rip those 1000 CDs.  

Then purchase Roon and buy a Raspberry Pi with hifiberry DAC to connect to your 52 and for less than £400 outlay you'll have a way to listen to all those CDs with the disruptive power of Roon and Raspberry. 

The speed of your internet will have negligible effect in this scenario. 

SJB

good second hand CD is a good buy these days, one that in the rack you can always start to look for a sensible streaming solution as well. 

My experience and opinion that every source finds it self a time slot in your listening time, when you got a good LP which is analog cut and worth to spend money on it, enjoy the full album or 225 Mozart complete CD collection box set for 170£ or some good HD albums or Tidal for new discovery.

You have good SQ options for all with good prices if you do you home work. 

What do you really want from streaming? If you're hoping to stream from the web, that's probably a bit optimistic with such a slow service, although my 4MB connection is fine for streaming Tidal at CD quality. (FWIW, I've found broadband performance to vary considerably between ISPs, some were very unreliable and I ditched them until I found one that worked.) Streaming your own music still requires an internet connection, but only to retrieve metadata and the like. You still need a properly set up home network, but that's simple enough. 

If the idea of decluttering your listening room of those nasty plastic CD cases appeals, rip them to a hard drive and stream them - since I did this, I've found that I buy more CDs than ever, but I just rip them once and stick them in the loft. Buying downloads, at CD quality or better, can increase both the quality and quantity of music available to you, and is still feasible on a slow connection.

If all that sounds like too much hassle, just get a new CD player. It wouldn't be my choice, but of course, there are no rules here.

I live in the countryside and although the internet speed is a bit faster than yours, the lines are so noisy (thanks to corroded junctions it would seem, according to the excellent engineer who spent all day here trying to discover the cause) that you tend to get drop outs regularly - worst when conditions are dry, or drying out after a long wet period.  I now realise that getting the issue fixed is just not possible.  The best I can get after weeks of back and forth calls and eventually getting a sympathetic engineer on site is for said engineer to brush down and clean up the corroded contacts on the junction boxes.  This cures the problem for a while but with more rain and the drying out the corrosion returns and the drop outs begin again.  Each time a request for a better fix is made (a new junction box BT??), but I guess this gets vetoed probably on the basis of cost - the junction box is half a mile away and only feeds to us and the next door cottage.  

So, streaming services over the internet are just not possible for me.  Or rather, not possible some of the time, which is almost as bad, or maybe worse.  It's just as well I have a ton of music available locally. So, ask yourself just how much you want/need streaming.  And as your internet is poor, perhaps stick with CD for a bit longer and try an inexpensive streamer in the system to see how you get on  and how your network is before taking the big plunge.

you don't need internet to enjoy your 1000CDs for you NAS with a full convenience and you can always buy tracks from online retailers such as HD Tracks etc and wait patiently for them to download, only Tidal won't work as it supposed to work.

Tidal is a good part of streaming new music that is a shame to miss but still i enjoy my own cds more with my streamer as well. 

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. Taking account of the internet constraints, cost and so on, my naturally conservative approach leads me to the conclusion that I should seek out a CD player once again. The CDS2 is my player of choice, but a CDX may well suffice as it doesn't require a power supply.

Richard - Oddly our internet gets worse when it's actually raining.

Peter

Or a used ndac and unitiserve . I got mine for a good price two years ago and probably going better in a few months when the new unity items are out. Being locally connected by BNC and relying on the web only for data - track details,cover art makes internet quality not so crucial. Simple access over wireless will provide all you will need using a device that's compatible or even a wood fired computer to control with the Desk Top Client download.

Certainly going CD is one really good option.  As a vinyl lover you are used to listening to at least an album side at a time.  If this is how you want to listen to your CDs then just get a good CD player and be done.

Personally I enjoy listening to many individual tracks.  This led me down the streaming path, as it is easy to pick and choose songs that I want to listen to.  if this sounds appealing we can help you examine the streaming route.  When talking about streaming many people blur the lines of internal to your house streaming and streaming to the internet.  Just because your internet connection is bad it does not necessarily mean that you can't stream internally in your own space. 

Good luck.

Pedro posted:

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. Taking account of the internet constraints, cost and so on, my naturally conservative approach leads me to the conclusion that I should seek out a CD player once again. The CDS2 is my player of choice, but a CDX may well suffice as it doesn't require a power supply.

Richard - Oddly our internet gets worse when it's actually raining.

Peter

Pedro,

If you exclude the option of an external streaming service, then you have two options.

1. Buy a CD player, bring your CDs back into your music room and select and play your CDs much as you would any one of your LPs. I used to play my CDs like this years ago, but sold my CD player in favour of option 2.

2. By a streaming device (such as an ND5 XS or NDX (used or new)), buy a NAS (say a Synology DS216j with 1 or 2 WD Red disks), and use dBpoweramp (installed on your PC or laptop) to rip your CDs to your NAS. Then move your CDs back into the loft (or wherever you store them when they are not in use), and sit down and have your entire CD collection available at the touch of a screen (using an iPad, iPhone or android device as your remote control. It might sound complicated, but it's really not. It just works.

Option 2 is so much more versatile, and most (though not all) people who give it a go would never dream of going back to standard CD replay.

For this option, you don't need fast Internet access as pointed out by EMRE. You just need to be able to connect your NAS and your streaming device to your router using standard ethernet cables.

Plenty of people on this forum capable of walking you through the process if you go down this route.  

Pedro,

others will make the case for streaming/ripping etc.  But if you wish to continue with CD then it remains 100% viable and nothing could be simpler in my opinion.  

CDPs to consider:

CDS3

Cdx2

CD5xs - giant killer will happily deliver the  goods in a high end system. 

Rega Saturn. 

Regards,

Lindsay

I would just go for a CDX2 and get a pre-loved 555PS non-DR for it. Playing music should be enjoyable and if installing a decent internet connection and a wired network is just not an option why make life difficult?

Adam

TOBYJUG posted:

Or a used ndac and unitiserve . I got mine for a good price two years ago and probably going better in a few months when the new unity items are out. Being locally connected by BNC and relying on the web only for data - track details,cover art makes internet quality not so crucial. Simple access over wireless will provide all you will need using a device that's compatible or even a wood fired computer to control with the Desk Top Client download.

This is a good suggestion. One I may explore in the future. Not sure exactly how the interface works, although I'm sure it's much simpler than my previous computer based NAS serving up my Uniti and then 172XS (both of these were not 100% reliable, and as such, I quickly lost my patience).

Peter, I have a CD5XS as a transport into a nDac. This is a fantastic combo, and I would love to hear a comparison between this pair and the UServe/nDac. I've played with both the CD5XS as source into a 172XS / 82 + CB HC / 82 + HCDR / 52 + SC and again with the nDac added and I can flatly say that the nDac with 52 + PSU is a wonderful, beautiful combination that has me for the first time not wanting to make any further changes to my boxes. 

S/H prices of a CD5XS were cheaper than for a US, and as far as I'm concerned, s/h prices for an nDac (make sure you get the latest firmware update of about a year plus ago) are a steal. The two together are phenomenal for the money!

Aric

I have gone completely for streaming - but not Internet streaming.  I ripped all my CDs to a NAS, and now mostly download music (and always as lossless files - usually FLAC that I convert to WAVE).

One thing that I really like about this is the ability to 'move' the odd track that I don't like out of what the Media Server considers to be an album, but still leave it on the NAS and accessible should I specifically wish to play it (Album view plays the album without the 'moved' tracks, Folder view plays the album with them).  Occasionally I'll do the reverse and add a track (usually a single) to an album in the Album view.

Hmack posted:

Pedro posted:

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. Taking account of the internet constraints, cost and so on, my naturally conservative approach leads me to the conclusion that I should seek out a CD player once again. The CDS2 is my player of choice, but a CDX may well suffice as it doesn't require a power supply.

Richard - Oddly our internet gets worse when it's actually raining.

Peter

Pedro,

If you exclude the option of an external streaming service, then you have two options.

1. Buy a CD player, bring your CDs back into your music room and select and play your CDs much as you would any one of your LPs. I used to play my CDs like this years ago, but sold my CD player in favour of option 2.

2. By a streaming device (such as an ND5 XS or NDX (used or new)), buy a NAS (say a Synology DS216j with 1 or 2 WD Red disks), and use dBpoweramp (installed on your PC or laptop) to rip your CDs to your NAS. Then move your CDs back into the loft (or wherever you store them when they are not in use), and sit down and have your entire CD collection available at the touch of a screen (using an iPad, iPhone or android device as your remote control. It might sound complicated, but it's really not. It just works.

Option 2 is so much more versatile, and most (though not all) people who give it a go would never dream of going back to standard CD replay.

For this option, you don't need fast Internet access as pointed out by EMRE. You just need to be able to connect your NAS and your streaming device to your router using standard ethernet cables.

Plenty of people on this forum capable of walking you through the process if you go down this route.  

Agree with option 2 several hundred CDs stored in a NAS, less clutter more convenient.

Pedro, I wonder why you got rid of the excellent CD player you used to have, ending in the position of having 1,000 CD albums laying idle. The answer to that surely suggests the future direction. If you had a CD player again, would you play them? If you ripped them, would you play them?

Now there lies an interesting question. Would I play them?

i shall keep that thought in my thinking as I consider the many options thrown up by the members of this forum. It was great to hear from members, both time served and (for me) new members who are prepared to share their thoughts and experiences.

i started buying LPs in 1973 when buying a record was quite a significant purchase when I was in the 5th form. Have now got a not unreasonable collection of 4,000 or so. Have never sold a record. Trouble is, I find it hard to sell my CDs too.

i'll make a decision once I've given this more thought and some more homework.

My thanks to all contributors.

Peter

Hi Pedro,
If you do decide to stay with a CD player, then it is worth considering the ability to repair or replace the mechanism.  These frequently last circa 6-8 years, though some last much longer.  

I'm not sure that the CDS2 mechanism is supported anymore.  I have a CDS3 which is on its second mechanism and I have no desire to replace this player, especially with its 555PS that gives this player much more life & energy to musical reproduction.  I'm unsure whether Naim can still replace mechanisms for the CDS3 either - perhaps others can comment on this.

A CDX2.2 with an XPS or 555PS supply may well be the most sustainable long terms solution for you, should you decide to go down the CD player route.  From my own experience of owning one, A CDX2 with 555PS is at least the equivalent of (though not the same as) a CDS2/olive XPS.  I preferred it to a CDS3/XPS, though the 2 players have markedly different strengths.

Then there are always the numerous streaming alternatives, should you decide to follow that path.

Hope this helps, FT

Foot tapper posted:

Hi Pedro,
If you do decide to stay with a CD player, then it is worth considering the ability to repair or replace the mechanism.  These frequently last circa 6-8 years, though some last much longer.  

I'm not sure that the CDS2 mechanism is supported anymore.  I have a CDS3 which is on its second mechanism and I have no desire to replace this player, especially with its 555PS that gives this player much more life & energy to musical reproduction.  I'm unsure whether Naim can still replace mechanisms for the CDS3 either - perhaps others can comment on this.

A CDX2.2 with an XPS or 555PS supply may well be the most sustainable long terms solution for you, should you decide to go down the CD player route.  From my own experience of owning one, A CDX2 with 555PS is at least the equivalent of (though not the same as) a CDS2/olive XPS.  I preferred it to a CDS3/XPS, though the 2 players have markedly different strengths.

Then there are always the numerous streaming alternatives, should you decide to follow that path.

Hope this helps, FT

I have recently had my cdx serviced and fitted with a new transport, along with xps service. I was informed that replacement transports were in limited supply for mine and other older generation players.

I mention this as you should be aware as mentioned above.

My serviced cdx and xps now sound great!! :-)

Noted and thank you. Had't realised how long it had been since I had a CDS2, and even the CDS3 for that matter. I got rid of my CDS3/555PS and my LP12 252/300/SL2s due to ill health and subsequent loss of employment. Priorities changed as a result.

I've pondered the many replies to my post quite a lot over the last few days. Having another source to supplement my vinyl was pushing me towards a more modern alternative. The internet being a real bug bear in our home as I fight off the kids for the scraps of our 1MB or less internet signal. Hence my initial plea for help. 

Although better informed (which is good), I am perhaps more unsure as there are options put forward that I hadn't considered, largely out of ignorance (not good).

i will check which CD players are still supported. Previous posts suggest that only the 555 has any prospect of ongoing support. 

Peter

Hi Peter -

A view from a new-to-you someone who got into local streaming when my Linn broke down and couldn't be repaired due to non-availability of a new laser... I got a UnitiQute and a small NAS and started ripping CDs on my PC. I'm definitely in the "amazed and revitalized" camp, and rediscovered a slightly lost joy in my older collection, partly while ripping, partly due to the convenience factor mentioned by others. I upgraded to a SuperUniti, and added external internet streaming with Tidal ... it will be two years since my last CD purchase come Xmas.

You could consider having your cake and eating it too when the new UnitiCore comes out in a couple of weeks, as this is a unit that rips your CDs and serves your music from its internal storage, but can also play CDs (apparently at higher quality than you might expect from the commodity computer grade CD-ROM mechanism, since it seems that it rips and plays from its buffer, avoiding the type of mechanical playback errors and correction of a regular CD player). You'd need a separate DAC, but there are many to choose from...and some of the CD players recommended here include the idea of adding an external DAC, so not conceptually different from any other transport. Spend as much or as little as you like here, depending on your impressions relative to your vinyl rig and the amount of use you end up getting out of your second source.

Perhaps a baby step that would allow you to play your discs and slowly build a ripped collection of your own music at the same time? No external high speed connection required, as internet access is only for convenience in adding the metadata for album name and artist, track titles, etc., plus firmware upgrades to keep the Core up to date.

Sorry if this has already been suggested, but your post about having a think inspired me to summarize a flexible option (and come out in the "streaming is just playing" camp).

Ripping 

Why the need for such expensive options? Especially if it's not your primary source. There are plenty of excellent players at a modest cost.

The CD5SI is an excellent player, compared it to the Rega Saturn R and the much less costly Apollo R, and to some other players near the cost of the Naim player.

Personally, the CD5SI sounded the best to me by quite a big margin. I also preferred the sound of the player to streaming alternatives. It's old school, but it's cool!!!!!

Pedro posted:

Noted and thank you. Had't realised how long it had been since I had a CDS2, and even the CDS3 for that matter. I got rid of my CDS3/555PS and my LP12 252/300/SL2s due to ill health and subsequent loss of employment. Priorities changed as a result.

I've pondered the many replies to my post quite a lot over the last few days. Having another source to supplement my vinyl was pushing me towards a more modern alternative. The internet being a real bug bear in our home as I fight off the kids for the scraps of our 1MB or less internet signal. Hence my initial plea for help. 

Although better informed (which is good), I am perhaps more unsure as there are options put forward that I hadn't considered, largely out of ignorance (not good).

i will check which CD players are still supported. Previous posts suggest that only the 555 has any prospect of ongoing support. 

Peter

You seem to associate streaming with the internet. That is only relevant if you want to access a (paid) external streaming service. As far as a source as a replacement for your CD player is concerned, you don't need an internet connection at all, though most people find it useful to download music to add to their collections - when the speed of the internet is not very important. And it is common for people to 'rip' their CDs, and some people do the same with LPs, to form a home 'library' of all their music, whereby well over 1000 albums can easily be stored on a single 1TB hard drive, and you can have larger or multipe drives. 

Advantages of streaming from such a store include the potential for higher sound quality than CD for streaming does not rely on reading a rotating disk in real time in the way CD does (albeit with a buffer), not needing or having the error correction algorithms used by CD players to cope with missing or corrupt data from disk read errors, and the resultant effect on sound that could cause. However, that said, some people who have both CD players and streamers with a streaming collection ripped from the CDs report that they prefer some recordings on one, and others on the other, though the impression I get from various discussions (but it is only an impression) is that a majority prefer most of the music via the streamer, and CD for a select number of disks. Streamed music (and CD) today are capable of significantly higher fidelity than vinyl, and with some DACs -e.g. The Chord Hugo, many people report that it has an analogue-like sound - but none of the sound quality inherent in making and playing CDs.

Streaming has added advantages of very small physical storage space for media, of no mechanical player to go out of alignment or wear out (instead, as the hard disks etc on which streaming files are stored can fail, backup copies are kept); of being able to browse and play any piece of music from your chair if you wish; of being able to download and play new purchases almost instantly; of giving access to higher resolutions than the 44kHz/16bits of CD ( not that they all sound better - but the option is there); and of online streaming services like Tidal and Qobuz if  they are of interest.

To stream from a home source the basics are a music store, a renderer (aka transport or player)and a DAC. Most common is a separate music store such as a NAS (Network Attached Storage), connected via a network  to a 'streamer' such as Naim ND5XS or NDX, output to your preamp, or streamer and preamp combined as in the NAC N272. Typical upgrades from that include adding a better DAC like nDAC or Hugo (or higher), retaining the streamer just as a renderer, or adding power supplies, or changing the streamer.

An alternative is a separate DAC fed by a combined music store + renderer (e.g MacMini+Audirvana, Melco, Innuos Zenith, and possible the new Unit Core which  Phil Harris has said that to his ears in his system is indistinguishable from NDx as renderer). One possibly significant advantage of this approach is avoidance of streaming files across a network, which seems to cause some people major problems.

In case it helps: started with ND5XS and a basic NAS, and through several steps noted on another recent thread I achieved a significant upgrade by changing to the combined store/renderer approach with a Mac Mini+Audirvana and the wonderful Hugo DAC (and a Gustard U12 isolator in between to remove the inevitable electrical/rf noise from the coomputer. The MM runs headless - just a small box, without screen or keyboard). That end result was cheaper than the ND5XS upgraded with either a power supply or external DAC, and I wished I had known to go straight in that direction. (But I have since upgraded the DAC further).

There is much about some of the above named options in these forums, and a quick search and read up may help.

Whilst the above is a godd sumary from the Innocent, it a bit complicated for a new adept od streaming.

Essentially what you need is; streamer (e.g. Naim NDX), NAS server, some bits of network wire. The network set up is as follows (picture courtesy of MikeB). Internet connectivity is not even required here to stream locally.

I replaced my CD player a number of years ago ...

I went for the simplest route here to avoid getting into the black arts of networks, multiple vendors, software,  etc.

UnitiServ -> DAC V1 -> pre/power

Then used the UnitiServe to rip all my CDs - painless and quality process

Internet is used to retrieve tagging and album art though but only once per CD rip.

The NServ app on my iPhone works well - don't know why some people on here don't rate it.

I occasionally use the US for internet radio but mainly play radio via my sky box through the pre/power so no internet here either.

Today this would be a Uniti Core rather than the UnitiServ and certainly gives a really good sound with minimum technical input. Very capable of fronting up to 282/250 level amplification IMO.

For a robust system you should also add a NAS on your home network for backing up the US or Core - I found this also very simple and used Powerlines to avoid Ethernet cabling all over the house - posters here don't like that but in this case it is only for the backup in the early hours of the morning and not for playing usic so yaa boo hiss Again this is local home network so no internet required.

Hope this helps a little in your decision making. Good luck and enjoy ...

Allan

Hi Peter, if i were you I'd follow Innocent Bystander's excellent posting. I moved from 555 CD player to Chord DAC some time ago and have never regretted the move. In its simplest terms, a Mac Mini (other computers are available) with attached HD storage, connected to a DAC, is the most straightforward way of ripping and playing your CD collection and will give excellent sound, at least as good as your CD player. Fast internet  connection is not required and you avoid the potential problems associated with network players (just look through the forum...). Once your CDs are ripped well, you can go on to change the system around as and when you want to.