SuperLine + Rega RP10 + what cartridge?

Dynavector XX2 works very well on the Rega's...

ATB,

Mark

 I run my RP10 with an Aphelion via Rega's own Aria into a SuperNait2.
Aria is a seriously good phono-amp, so rather than buying a StageLine I decided to go for a good cartridge from Rega.

Why do you prefer the Superline. I think powering it with a Supernait may not do it full justice. Why not drop your sights a little and concentrate on a decent MC cartridge. In essence I agree with Adam.  

p.s. If I had a Superline I'd be looking at a HiCap to power it at the very least; preferably a S.Cap with Burndy.

Hi Paulie,

The Superline really comes into its own when powered by its own Supercap DR. I found it to be hobbled when powered off my NAC52, which itself was powered by a Naim serviced olive Supercap.

When driven off my 52, it was a bit better, but only a bit better, than the Dynavector P75 phono stage that I was also using at the time with a DV XX-2 mk 2 cartridge. However, the Superline +SCDR was simply phenomenal with the XX-2 cartridge in the same system. I was fortunate to have the Superline for over 2 weeks in order to try these combinations before finally deciding what to do.

Hope this helps, FT

There is a  review in tonepublications.com. Search on their web site for the Naim Superfine review. Interesting comments on it's abilities with the Supernait and external power supplies. 

Thanks for the info -- Adam, your suggestion to spend on a cartridge rather than phono stage seems like a good one  I'm presently using a Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE II. Would this, in your view, be up to the Rega Apheta 2? Is it comparable to the SuperLine? Cheers.

Paulie posted:

Thanks for the info -- Adam, your suggestion to spend on a cartridge rather than phono stage seems like a good one  I'm presently using a Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE II. Would this, in your view, be up to the Rega Apheta 2? Is it comparable to the SuperLine? Cheers.

Unfortunately I don't know your phono stage so cannot reliably comment on it.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Paulie posted:

Thanks for the info -- Adam, your suggestion to spend on a cartridge rather than phono stage seems like a good one  I'm presently using a Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE II. Would this, in your view, be up to the Rega Apheta 2? Is it comparable to the SuperLine? Cheers.

Unfortunately I don't know your phono stage so cannot reliably comment on it.

Isn't the Lehmann his phono stage?

Sorry Adam; misread your reply.

Paulie, I much preferred the Stageline (with Flatcap2) to the original Lehmann Black Cube.  I'm not sure about the SE II version of the Black Cube, as I haven't heard it, but price-wise it still seems to be competing in the Stageline+psu level of the market, rather than the much higher strata of the Superline.

Dynavector XX2 - just superb with Superline.  I had to get a Rua at 2x the price to achieve an improvement.  

If you can afford it, go for the Aphelion. It is a big step up from the Apheta. Fast, detailed, and easy to listen to.

I can recommend the Lyra Delos that plays very nice on my RP9 into a SuperLine. 

We had a customer buy an RP10 with a Dynavector 20x2L. Into a Dynavector P75, it was magic.   The XX2 should also be a fine combination. Personally I love the Superline. I think it goes way beyond most phono stages. Another one to look at is the Cyrus Signature, very fine especially with the PSXR. 

Frank.

Thanks all. Not a lot of live for the Alpheta 2, it would seem. Perhaps Dynavector in the way forward. 

Paulie posted:

Thanks all. Not a lot of live for the Alpheta 2, it would seem. Perhaps Dynavector in the way forward. 

My RP10 came with an Apheta 2, factory pre-installed. The cartridge died after 1 month (one of the channels simply stopped working). So as a courtesy I was offered an Aphelion. 

Aphelion is a much better cartridge,  more transparent and neutral. One could almost 'accuse' it of being warm .

Don't get me wrong - Apheta 2 is a brilliant piece of kit. Very detailed and insightful. If you can get one you will love what it does.

Paulie posted:

Thanks all. Not a lot of live for the Alpheta 2, it would seem. Perhaps Dynavector in the way forward. 

Audition is the only way forward, with the in my view critical viewpoint that the phonostage that works best with one cartridge might not be the best for another.

Good luck.

Chris

To be clearer, I would be wanting to audition an Aphelion with Rega IOS reference stage, as a first step.

C.

As a P75 user who plans to upgrade my phono stage one day I find it hard to fathom that a Superline powered off a Supernait 2 would only be marginally better than a P75 powered off a wall wart power supply.  Yes I can accept that it may sound amazing powered by a Supercap, but surely all that lovingly engineered electronics inside the SuperLine should be considerably superior to my little P-75?  If not the P-75 is either a remarkable bit of kit for the money or the Superline isn't. So which is it?  

It's actually about a complete system balance. Sometimes adding a more costly component does not mean the sum will become greater. 

P75 has really good reviews - so there is something it does well

Yes of course system balance is important but that is not the issue here.  Simple question, does a Superline really need a SuperCap to considerably improve on a P-75? 

Personally I find that suggestion difficult to accept and think that it might be little more than hyperbole.

King Size posted:

Yes of course system balance is important but that is not the issue here.  Simple question, does a Superline really need a SuperCap to considerably improve on a P-75? 

Personally I find that suggestion difficult to accept and think that it might be little more than hyperbole.

Dunno... I don't use either of those

I originally used a P75 Mk II before going for a Superline. The former really is an excellent phono stage, but I found in my system the Superline, even powered by a 552, was considerably better. I'd gone to a Radkial/Urika before the advent of the DR conversions but a "standard" Supercap was a greater improvement still. Of course, a lot depends on your own system.

King Size posted:

Yes of course system balance is important but that is not the issue here.  Simple question, does a Superline really need a SuperCap to considerably improve on a P-75? 

Personally I find that suggestion difficult to accept and think that it might be little more than hyperbole.

Hi King Size,
I understand and respect your perspective and perhaps your scepticism about this.  If you have tried both phono stages in your system, then I respect your view even more.

In May 2014, I started a thread on this forum called "the perils of a quick Superline demo", which summarises my findings at the time.  You are welcome to read it.  I stand by those findings, while respecting that others may draw a different conclusion.

Does the P75 punch far above its price point?  When paired with a Dynavector MC cartridge, yes it does, remarkably so.  Does it do so with other cartridges?  I have never tried so don't know.

Did a Superline with the optimum Naim z foil airplug resistor, powered off my 52/Supercap convey more music than the P75?  Yes.  In my view it was a bit better but it was an incremental improvement, not a step change and I was looking for a step change.  

Would the Superline sound even better when powered off a 552?  Probably but I couldn't try that combination - TonyM has first hand experience there.  

Did the Superline + Supercap DR sound a bit better still?  No.  It sounded absolutely stunningly musical.  Glorious to these cloth ears.

I subsequently auditioned phono stages from Rega, Trilogy, Whest, Aurorasound and the 3 box Paradise phono stage.  Of all those, the Paradise stage floated my boat more than any of the others, all with the same Dynavector XX-2 cartridge.

So that has been my first hand experience and I apologise if it comes across as hyperbole.  It is not intended.

Having said all of the above, if I had a Rega RP10 and was looking for exceptional value for money, I'd buy an Alpheta 2 and Aria phono stage.  I've heard this combination twice and it sounded thoroughly, enjoyably musical on both occasions.  The Aphelion is even better, but at a price (except for Adam, who has done remarkably well by those lovely people at Rega).

Hope this helps, FT

Thanks for taking the time FT, your answer is much appreciated and helps put things into perspective.  

I run a P9 with a 20-x2L into the P75 and would love to get my hands on the previous incarnation of the IOS (i.e. the pre-Reference version) but they rarely appear on the second hand market.  When the time to upgrade comes I will look to move further up the DV range and pair with a suitable phono stage (all the ones you mention are of interest).  If that phono stage is a Superline I think that a separate HiCap is about as far as i'd be willing to go.  An all rega front (deck, cart and phono stage) is also an option.

Hi King Size,
J.N. used to have one of the £1500 pre-battleship IOS phono stages, so can provide you with first hand experience of owning one.  I had a brief audition of one about 6 years ago, when deciding which turntable to buy back then.  It went very well with a DV XX-2 mk 2.

Of all the phono stages that I have tried, the SL + SCDR was the most gloriously engaging, captivating and thoroughly enjoyable.
This was even better as I recall than the phono stage that I did end up buying, which was the Moon 310LP/320S.  This came in a close second (yes, really).  The Paradise was third (if you can source one at all now), with the others some way behind.

I haven't tried a Linn Ulrika, as I don't possess a Linn LP12 anymore.  Equally, I didn't want to go down the valve route, so didn't try Acoustic Research, Tron, Allnic etc.

Happy auditioning, when the time comes.  I found the difference between phono stages to be surprisingly large, until I did a quick mental calculation and worked out that a phono stage amplifies an MC cartridge voltage by about 3000 times to get it to 1 volt.  By way of contrast, the pre-amp & power amp between them multiply the voltage by a further factor of about err 3 at normal listening levels.

Yet we what we all spend on the amplifier is many multiples of what we spend on a phono stage.

Doesn't it make you wonder if we have got that the right way round ...

Best regards, FT