LP12 - what to expect ...

Heihei, try to compare the RP10 to a top spec LP12. You might be surprised !

Yes - dealer has offered to do exactly this. First off we'll listen to an RP10 vs LP12 of similar pricing with the same cart (Dynavector), then he offered to demo a top spec LP12 to show what can be achieved. Should be interesting.

Allan Milne posted:

Good to hear from you all but still a little scarce in anything about *what* I should hear from the demo ..

 

Lindsay - stop it ... can't go through all that again Yep I did listen to those when I first bought the LP12 and to me the latter won out so now its just evolution, not revolution.

Roger - my dealer actually talked me out of going to the climax, he knows me and quite rightly pointed out that starting from Majik and going up would be more fun - and he is right. In fact I'm not even sold on going any further since what I hear is so good at present and hence the demo ... to try and convince me, myself, I that I can actually hear any difference; I'm not sure my ears are that good

 

Thanks all and I hope more keeps coming,

Allan

Problem with this equipment Allan is different things to different people.    If you go for the Elkos I should imagine a more accurate sound through better tracking and less surface noise. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Hi Allan,

first of all sorry for getting your name wrong the last time.

I went from the Basik+ to an Ittok II on my Valhalla/pre Circus LP 12 and later from an early Akito to an Ekos on a Pink Anniversary. Both changes were easy to notice, the whole playback was unforced in contrast to a more mechanical sound before. Somehow like a feeling, that the musicians hand no longer a need to try so hard. I prefer unipivots now, but they are most likely not the way you want to travel. When it comes to demos, I usually take three or four records with me. Two are chosen from the last ones I have played at home and the others are ones I know well, but very different stylewise. The idea is to get a handle on how the new things get along with, for example, acoustic or electronic, simple or complex music. I usually try to include a solo piano or well recorded voice.

heihei posted:

Yes - dealer has offered to do exactly this. First off we'll listen to an RP10 vs LP12 of similar pricing with the same cart (Dynavector), then he offered to demo a top spec LP12 to show what can be achieved. Should be interesting.

As you say, interesting. £3K gets you and RP10 sans cartridge. Not sure what it gets in LinnWorld. An upspecced Majik LP12?

C.

Allan

I have an LP12 Akurate but with Urika / Radikal. It is 3 components 'short' of a full Klimax spec: sub-chassis, arm and cartridge.

If there is only one component to be changed  I was told it is a sub-chassis.

So a new arm is almost at the end.

Adam

The Man With Nonaim posted:

Heihei, try to compare the RP10 to a top spec LP12. You might be surprised !

I also run an RP10 with Aphelion in my other system. It is a brilliant piece of kit. Up there with the upper echelons of LP12s.

Adam - interesting. Not to prejudge my findings, but how would you characterise the differences between the two?

Interestingly when I asked about the Aphelion, the dealer suggested there were better carts for the money, but this may be linked more to the fact that he didn't rate it on the LP12.

Cheers,

Adam (also)

Hi Allan, Its everywhere, from deeper bass and lots more of it to detail that I didn't realise was on the record but more importantly its the general portrayal of the music far more 'real' if that is a term and imaging not just left to right but everywhere else too infact every time I put on a familiar lp I wonder if I knew it at all things are so much improved. I hope you get the same amount of upgrade as I have and I am very jealous of you owning an Ekos, perhaps that is something I too should be looking at? A Lingo Power supply is next for me then a better phono stage and then perhaps I will take a look at my arm again.  Things to look forward to thats a fact. 

Thanks WM, just the kind of thing I was looking for.

Forum wisdom seems to be subchassis, power then arm ... will have to have a little think ...

This always seemed a little counter-intuitive to me since it is the cartridge (which I'm happy with) that is in direct contact with the vinyl, supported by the effect of the arm; don't want to get into those endless discussions about source first and closed TT mechanics but from the premise of the vinyl being the source then I would have thought you work backwards from the vinyl through the supporting mechanics ... its just a question of order, I know, since every upgrade will have its effect and probably depends on where I want to end up - just one change or all the way to near-climax spec!

I wonder if changing the question to ...

"if you could only add one of Radikal, Keel, Ekos which one would you choose for the rest of the life of the system?"

would result in different answers.

I've also seen posts that say that VFM the Kore subchassis gets 75% of the improvement of the Keel for a third of the price; also something to consider given Linn's recent price hike.

All this to look forward to in late December as my son is coming up from darkest England to give me the loan of his younger ears and his southern ways.

How exciting!

Allan

Accordinging to the original scriptures of Drakemire Drive it was the TT/motor construction that most impacted performance. My view is that it is system synergy that is most important. Or put another way if Ivor's gospel was so true there is no way on this planet that my Nat 05 tuner could sound so compelling.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Allan Milne posted:

I wonder if changing the question to ...

"if you could only add one of Radikal, Keel, Ekos which one would you choose for the rest of the life of the system?"

would result in different answers.

Yes, probably. But I'm starting to worry now, Allan, that you are overthinking all this and it's all going to cloud your judgement when your dem comes.

Nice to see 'Drakemire Drive' in Strat's post. Not a phrase I'd seen since 1978.

Chris

Wise words Chris ...

I do all the analytical thinking stuff here and prior to the dem; so I'm going into the dem with at least a little understanding of the "big picture" and what I'm actually there to find out.

Trust me when I go into a dem I just hear and feel "stuff" and don't try to analyse what and why - or at least not too much

I hear what you're saying and I will be careful.

It is much too easy to get into the "...but could you tweak that bit there and try this connection with that bit of kit and ..." - which just gets you confused and unable to make a decision.

Thanks,

Allan

Allan Milne posted:

 

.

It is much too easy to get into the "...but could you tweak that bit there and try this connection with that bit of kit and ..." - which just gets you confused and unable to make a decision.

 

Thanks,

Allan

Absolutely - some times it's just best to leave things alone.   From a man who's got a real speaker itch

... but you know you want to scratch it

Aside - given your handle, I have just ordered a Callaham bridge upgrade for my son's strat for Xmas

heihei posted:

Adam - interesting. Not to prejudge my findings, but how would you characterise the differences between the two?

Interestingly when I asked about the Aphelion, the dealer suggested there were better carts for the money, but this may be linked more to the fact that he didn't rate it on the LP12.

Cheers,

Adam (also)

Heyhey Adam

Difficult question, but actually surprisingly easy to answer.

RP10 with an Aphelion is now on a par with my LP12. Perhaps if I tweak my LP12 all the way to Klimax I may hear more of a difference. Curious now
Main difference: LP12 seems to be more fluid in the way it presents the music. But it's no longer 'better or worse'. Just different.

Kudos to Rega for creating RP10 and Aphelion. It really is a top class deck.

Adam

Even with an LP 12 in a very modest state of 'tune' - eg a 1980's model: Valhalla psu, pressed subchassis etc,  an upgrade from an inexpensive arm to a 'super arm' would make an enourmous difference. In fact, at that time, it was the only upgrade possible - after that you could go for an MC cart. Many owners would have gone the Basik LVX to Ittok route and been shocked by the improvement. I would say that the most striking aspect was the increase in pitch and timing resolution (but there was weight of sound and dynamics too) - the better arm let you hear the structure of music - and just how predictable it was.

Todays 'starter' LP 12 is  far cry from the one I had in 1984 (and still have) - so an arm upgrade could still be a good move - despite being politically incorrect.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Absolutely - some times it's just best to leave things alone.   From a man who's got a real speaker itch

Indeed!

BTW. It's the power supply first, then sub-chassis in order of importance. This assumes we are talking Cirkus LP12s (pretty sure we are after a brief read)

Enjoy your demo and the differences are not difficult to hear.

KR

Peter

Heihei, I don't want to sound intimidating but remember that your dealer is going to make a lot more money selling you a top spec LP12 over a Rega RP10. Don't be afraid to stand your ground but if you prefer the Linn the go for it. Just remember that it's your money so you (not he dealer) should be making the choice.

dektop100 posted:

Even with an LP 12 in a very modest state of 'tune' - eg a 1980's model: Valhalla psu, pressed subchassis etc,  an upgrade from an inexpensive arm to a 'super arm' would make an enourmous difference. In fact, at that time, it was the only upgrade possible - after that you could go for an MC cart. Many owners would have gone the Basik LVX to Ittok route and been shocked by the improvement. I would say that the most striking aspect was the increase in pitch and timing resolution (but there was weight of sound and dynamics too) - the better arm let you hear the structure of music - and just how predictable it was.

Todays 'starter' LP 12 is  far cry from the one I had in 1984 (and still have) - so an arm upgrade could still be a good move - despite being politically incorrect.

true , but , again shifting from basik PSU to valhalla was a lovely upgrade at the time. Not to mention what is available today ,especially DC's.

I Wouldn't be surprised the majik affair not to be on par with a serviced valhalla.

Cymbiosis is right there, psu first, and that could be easily vouched by anyone I reckon.

Thanks all for your contributions ...

... I am now considering just going for the lot - Radikal + Keel + Ekos

... if that's where I'll end up anyway then why not do it all in a oner and then I can forget about all the in-between stuff and just enjoy the music

... all depends on what I hear though - there has to be a helluva improvement in the music to justify this outlay

grin and bear it

Allan

Allan Milne posted:

 

Thanks all for your contributions ...

... I am now considering just going for the lot - Radikal + Keel + Ekos

... if that's where I'll end up anyway then why not do it all in a oner and then I can forget about all the in-between stuff and just enjoy the music

... all depends on what I hear though - there has to be a helluva improvement in the music to justify this outlay

 

grin and bear it

Allan

Allan! I didn't want to read that.... grrrrr....

I was trying to convince myself not to do the same... Now you've woken the beast again....

Allan Milne posted:

 

Thanks all for your contributions ...

... I am now considering just going for the lot - Radikal + Keel + Ekos

Allan

You've forgotten the Urika!!

Clive

Sorry Adam ... if I do go all the way then I won't post anything about it

... go and lie down now and have a nice snooze and tell yourself it was all a dream :0)

Clive - I thought my Linto would be up to scratch in that area ... are you going to tell me differently and get me itching again

Allan

The beast won't go to sleep...

And I thought my upgradiatis was cured