Attenuator plugs/ cables/ devices between Naim DAC and amp - Low volume level listening

Sorry can't comment on attenuators but:

Looking at your profile I see you use a Chord 2Qute DAC which has a fixed line output of 3V which is quite high. 

In comparison a Naim DAC V1 has a fixed line output of 2.1V which in turn would give you a bit more usable range on the pre-amp volume control.

If you fancied a Hugo you could use its variable volume to reduce the output to the pre-amp to suit your taste/requirements, as many here do with pleasing results. I wonder what other DACs have this feature.

3V is not just quite high, it's very high indeed - arguably excessively so.  Naim feel that even the 2V Redbook standard is probably too high, but as it's a standard they adhere within a tiny margin.  Combine a 3V output of your DAC with a Naim amp, throw in the very high mastering levels used these days on too many digital releases and you have a recipe for very little usable range on the volume control.  Short of using some sort of attenuation - not ideal sonically - then you have a choice of changing the DAC or changing the amp.  Why not try out some attenuators first.  Your dealer should be able to fit some resistors to a suitable interconnect for you.  Go from there...

Just to point out that my use of the Chord 2Qute DAC has seen it being relegated to 'USB > computer DAC'' purposes only.  There is a Naim DAC in my current system which is the main DAC and is fed by a computer via TOSlink but mainly a CD player which will be a permanent feature.  The Naim DAC is a 2.1V output so also challenging on this specific problem.

I asked on here a few days ago about attenuators and the advice i was givin was dont use them

i had already orderded a pair from ebay which are already on their way so will try them on my chord RCA and let you know how i get on.

Something doesn't add up here.
Unless your walls are made of paper, it is perfectly possible to use a volume control on a standard line-level input.

I can turn my main system to a whisper level and still enjoy it. 
Of course most of the lower end is gone, but that pure acoustics.

Back into crazy Hi-Fi world. I used the XS integrated with Nordost mid league power and connect cables. Found that at whisper quiet levels it was excellent, with all aspects of everything just right. Playing just a bit loader everything just got a bit better. Forget about attenuators and concentrate on putting in some quality cables.

Just to add to the advice of others - attenuators strip the life from music in my experience, I have tried a number including Rothwell.

I do not know the Neats but some HiFi does need a bit of oomph to come alive. I use Focal 1008be, my volume rarely rises above 0900, and the system is still alive and percussive at low volume levels, which I use after 2300.

M

Just to point out that the equivalent of a tape recorder's 0VU for CD is actually 256mv!  An output of 2V is the equivalent of the VU needles being flung against the end stops of the meters.

This is a problem caused by people setting the wrong transfer level when mastering the digital track or CD, it's not a hardware problem.

But attenuators aren't the answer (by far the best answer I've found is the volume control of the NAC-N 272).

In terms of how much volume is needed to make the music 'come alive', that seems to primarily depend on the speakers being used.

Simple solution:  Mute the music.  With volume at 9:00, very gently pull the volume knob off and gently push it back on at 12:00.  Problem solved!

tryed a pair this afternoon

listened to one track and has Underhill says attenuators strip the life from music

they will be on their way back tomorrow.

Hi Tony,

Sorry that your experience echoed mine, it looks such a handy and easy solution!

I had a quick look to see if there is a pro-audio step down transformer that you could try. I think Jensen may do one, but they tend to be on the more expensive side. If you could get a high quality passive step-down transformer that may do the trick.

That said, as I alluded to above, it may be that your speakers don't give what you want at lower volume levels. Can you get back to the dealers and see what they can get them to do at lower volumes - or do you already know that they can produce the goods at low SPLs?

M

CharlieP posted:

Simple solution:  Mute the music.  With volume at 9:00, very gently pull the volume knob off and gently push it back on at 12:00.  Problem solved!

I bought a pre loved 202 last year and pretty sure this had already been done - I like it and it's still that way. On My previous SN1 I could hardly use any volume range & it is frustrating.

Errrr, I think Charlie was joking there. Obviously it can make no difference, it just moves the limited range to somewhere else. 

Indeed, but psychologically it's just seems better with the limited range at around 9.. 

A retrofit of a superuniti/272 control would be a great option.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Errrr, I think Charlie was joking there. Obviously it can make no difference, it just moves the limited range to somewhere else. 

Well, a bit tongue in cheek I suppose...  But I am assuming the music is fine and the perceived problem is that the volume knob setting is too early in the morning.  I do hope future offerings in the NACs will elegantly address this issue (as I suppose has been done in recent products).  No offense intended to OP.

tonycurran1 posted:

tryed a pair this afternoon

listened to one track and has Underhill says attenuators strip the life from music

they will be on their way back tomorrow.

Thanks for the warning. Will keep away from those for now and have a go with alternative DACs.

SamS posted:

 

If you fancied a Hugo you could use its variable volume to reduce the output to the pre-amp to suit your taste/requirements, as many here do with pleasing results. I wonder what other DACs have this feature.

 

I've had a Hugo on demo and it can help to adjust the volume, The Mojo will be the same sort of thing and a likely option now.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Something doesn't add up here.
Unless your walls are made of paper, it is perfectly possible to use a volume control on a standard line-level input.

I can turn my main system to a whisper level and still enjoy it. 
Of course most of the lower end is gone, but that pure acoustics.

CharlieP posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Errrr, I think Charlie was joking there. Obviously it can make no difference, it just moves the limited range to somewhere else. 

Well, a bit tongue in cheek I suppose...  But I am assuming the music is fine and the perceived problem is that the volume knob setting is too early in the morning.  I do hope future offerings in the NACs will elegantly address this issue (as I suppose has been done in recent products).  No offense intended to OP.

From my experience I've found that the music 'comes alive' more when being able to adjust the volume from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock on the Nait XS-2 , and that also is where the fine-tuning of the increase /decrease in volume  by small increments will be obtained. In the lower range around where the volume pot starts, the increments are 'chunky' and more tricky to control either from the remote control or on the unit.

Something else strange occurs on the unit.  If the source input is switched off or the amp muted, in order to rotate the volume from the lower stop point all the way to maximum and then back down again, on the return counter-clockwise rotation there is a jolt and snap somewhere within the volume mechanism, around that 9 o'clock position.  Is this a known 'feature' of the volume control?

TOBYJUG posted:

Back into crazy Hi-Fi world. I used the XS integrated with Nordost mid league power and connect cables. Found that at whisper quiet levels it was excellent, with all aspects of everything just right. Playing just a bit loader everything just got a bit better. Forget about attenuators and concentrate on putting in some quality cables.

This helps a little bit, I've found by not using Chord Company cables, Tellurium Q go better with Naim setups.