NAC-552

I have some old price lists so can fill in a few of the blanks 

2007 new = £13,725 (inc PS)

2010 new = £15,750 (inc PS, R-COM & Power-Line)

2013 new = £18,250 (inc DR PS, R-COM & Power-Line)

Good luck with the rest.

** These are from the price lists from April of the stated year **

Hugh,

Have you tried asking someone like Steve Hopkins at the Naim factory? 

Steve is a great guy, who has helped me many times. But he's a very busy man.

Surely this Forum is the ideal place for 'Collective memory' to operate?

Hugh

But for what purpose? All those prices won't really help. All you need to do is add the current price of a service and upgrade to the price you'd pay for an old one, and compare it to the price of a new one. I saw an early 552 the other day for £7,500. Say the upgrade is £3,000 (no idea if it is) then you take a view on how £10,500 compares with £20,000 for a new one. 

Help who? I'm not an Accountant, but having that information will definitely help me.

Maybe you know it already, so it wouldn't help you.

But to take your example:

 1. How 'Early' is early? There are pretty big differences between 2004, 2007 and 2010. So when does 'Early' end and 'Not Early' begin?

 2. Clearly (however regrettably) there are now two 'Classes' of Nac-552 out there.

 3. If you want to argue there is no difference between any Nac-552 other than 'DR' or 'Non-DR', then it follows that there should be only two prices for second-hand Nac-552's.

That may be correct in principle; but does not correspond with the actuality.

Hugh

Sorry but this is silly ... original prices have no bearing on second-hand prices ... its a question of supply and demand; and historical pservice/upgrade costs are particularly irrelevant.

Second-hand prices are what they are; common sense determines that the older a component the more "worn" it is and hence should be less than a newer one (except for the "vintage" factor).

As HH says, it is the current service/upgrade cost that is relevant in order to get a second-hand 552 back up to spec and therefore give you the total cost of purchase that can then be compared against the cost of a new 552.

If you're trying to get a handle on "is it worth it" then forget it, its worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it and that is up to the market and you.

Allan

There's a 2009 one for sale at the moment that's been dr'd for £11500. If it can sell for that it almost seems like cheap hifi if ever there was any. 

The price increase between when it was first produced to today's price is quite staggering.

Allen,

You are contradicting yourself.

 1. The cost of a Full Service on both Boxes is around £1120. The cost of a DR Upgrade is about £1850.

 2. The cost of a second Hand Nac-552 (DR or Non-DR) is whatever the market will bear

 3. The Buyer - unless he/she is altogether stupid - will base their evaluation on age, condition and history. Within that, relevant facts such as the Serial Number, provenance (number of users, Service History, Fault History), and initial price will all be relevant considerations.

The above is a list - not meant to be exhaustive - of what you said in your message.

Trying to say original price is irrelevant is a bit like suppressing a guilty secret - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the rubbish notion that 'If you have to ask, you can't afford it'.

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

Your list is a nice summary of what I meant, expressed more eloquently.

I am surprised at the service/DR costs you quote - I had no idea what these were but thought they might be a lot more than this !

I don't see any contradiction in what I said; it is nothing about if you need to know the price you can't afford it. It is about the fact that the second-hand price is not related to the original price ... there are many examples of products where the resale price is actually higher than the original ... I bought a 1971 Martin D28 guitar last year for more than it cost originally ( in fact I paid the same as my son did for a new one - crazy).

resale 552 prices are what they are, irrespective of original prices of the component, service or upgrade.

I must admit that the prices I've seen quoted here are very attractive ... go away ... no, no , no, I'm not even going to think about it ... back to the 282/252 or nothing at all question for me

Allan

In my view, the original price really is irrelevant. £11,500 for a DR 2009 is very fair compared to the earlier non DR that I saw, which would be only £1,000 less once upgraded. Once fully upgraded it's up to current spec - you just decide whether you'd rather pay £8,000 more to own a brand new one. It's more about psychology than accountancy, and I say that as an accountant. Look at Nait 2s, which were about £200 new and now sell for £600+. Are they worth it? You are paying for rarity value and hype. I have an 1890s Polyphon music box which would sell for well over £1,000, but probably cost only a few pounds back in 1890. 

A bit over half price including a service and DR costs seem about right, it's what my 500 came in at and that was a very early one (but just missed the flight cases alas).

OK - So now we have it!: "About half price" is what (one) has in mind for 'The Naim Thing' - The implicit social understanding that Naim stuff will keep its value. Nothing in this says values will go up or down relative to production or (dealer) prices.

Prices paid by 'Buyers' will reflect supply etc: If the supply is fundamentally from the 'used' market, and the 'New' Price + Support Costs rise, then the Secondary Market will rise (ceteris paribus as the Economists say).

However, to assume ever rising prices is fatuous.

Specifically, when the Producer introduces what s in effect a 'two tier market' (via the monopoly price for upgrading the Nac-552 to DR - which also takes six weeks!!!!), people in the market revalue values.

'Naim Bulls', (people I much respect)  ought to avoid the moral hazard of (perhaps unconsciously) suggesting that 'Markets always rise'.

They don't.

Hugh

Who ever said that Naim prices always rise ...

... no logic in this argument and no premise ... and no conclusion.

... haven't a clue what you're trying to say, sorry

Allan

New prices rise, S/H don't, except for certain items. 

skyebridge posted:

Help who? I'm not an Accountant, but having that information will definitely help me.

Maybe you know it already, so it wouldn't help you.

But to take your example:

 1. How 'Early' is early? There are pretty big differences between 2004, 2007 and 2010. So when does 'Early' end and 'Not Early' begin?

 2. Clearly (however regrettably) there are now two 'Classes' of Nac-552 out there.

 3. If you want to argue there is no difference between any Nac-552 other than 'DR' or 'Non-DR', then it follows that there should be only two prices for second-hand Nac-552's.

That may be correct in principle; but does not correspond with the actuality.

Hugh

Honestly I think you are approaching this from the wrong angle. At the end what counts is the performance you get from your device. So if there is no major overhaul in place the age doesn't matter so much, while of course determines when you need to have it for service etc. On the market people tend to pay more for a younger one, but that doesn't mean that the younger is better then the older one....

Obviously my answer doesn't include the DR aspect. But that's just a matter of investment decision. If you buy without DR, you will have to calculate in the cost of bringing it up the level with the Dr spec.

skyebridge posted:

OK - So now we have it!: "About half price" is what (one) has in mind for 'The Naim Thing' - The implicit social understanding that Naim stuff will keep its value. Nothing in this says values will go up or down relative to production or (dealer) prices.

Prices paid by 'Buyers' will reflect supply etc: If the supply is fundamentally from the 'used' market, and the 'New' Price + Support Costs rise, then the Secondary Market will rise (ceteris paribus as the Economists say).

However, to assume ever rising prices is fatuous.

Specifically, when the Producer introduces what s in effect a 'two tier market' (via the monopoly price for upgrading the Nac-552 to DR - which also takes six weeks!!!!), people in the market revalue values.

'Naim Bulls', (people I much respect)  ought to avoid the moral hazard of (perhaps unconsciously) suggesting that 'Markets always rise'.

They don't.

Hugh

That is a very nice piece of pseudo-economics applied to second-hand piece of hi-fi equipment.

Seriously....

If you cannot afford to buy it, just don't. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

skyebridge posted:

I am interested in the Pricing history + Service Costs of this wonderful Pre-Amp - Particularly as a number of older ones are appearing on the S/H market:

What was the Naim Price of the 552 + PS when first introduced?

What was the cost of a full Service at around that stage in time?

What was the brand new price of a 2004 model?

What was the service cost in 2004?

What was the brand new price of a 2007 model?

What was the service cost in 2007?

What was the brand new price of a 2010 model?

What was the service cost in 2010?

What was the brand new price of a 2013 model?

What was the service cost in 2013?

I appreciate that these questions do not include Prices for the DR Upgrade. If anybody can add these to their response, that would be even more helpful.

Skyebridge

You may go on 'ad infinitum' .

Price is never up to the customer but reflects offer/supply laws.

If you're really after a 552 this is the best way to keep you furthest from getting it .

Like Allan, this thread has now pretty much lost me! In fairness to the OP, he began simply by asking a number of pretty straightforward questions. It was the response of other forum members that led to this slightly surreal discussion of, as Adam so neatly puts it, pseudo-economics. A non-judgemental discussion of second hand price trends might be quite interesting?

That was my sole intention at the outset.

I was curious to be reminded but the thread went rather weird rather quickly.

IIRC, when I first became aware of a thing called the NAC552 it retailed at around £12k. By the time we bought one it was at around £18k. 

I bought an XPS2 for £2275 once to go on my £2750 CDX2. The new prices for 2017 are £3820 and £4310 respectively. 

A big help come trade in time. And interesting how prices have unrelentingly risen without freezing out the potential owner population. Might have shifted the bell curve though. It won't matter to Naim providing a big enough cohort are still willing to put hands in pockets.

It's all about the money. Nothing else matters as much nowadays. Way of the world. Charge as much as possible for as little as people will take. It nearly killed Mercedes Benz because Chrysler got the tipping point wrong. Naim are very good at it.

What a strange thread.  

On the rare occasions one sees them the NAC552 non DR advertised by dealers at around £8k - 10k depending on age.  Add £3k to that for a DR and there you have it.  If you don't want to fork out £20k (or whatever it is now) for a new one you're going to have to pay between £8k and £13k depending on age and whether it's DR'd. Original prices are irrelevant from the pot of s/h prices now; i's what the market forces dictate.

I will apply Thumpers Mother Rule here - and say nothing. 

Well we're all glad you took the trouble to make a contribution.

Alba1320 posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Like Allan, this thread has now pretty much lost me! In fairness to the OP, he began simply by asking a number of pretty straightforward questions. It was the response of other forum members that led to this slightly surreal discussion...

SNIP

Really? As far as I can see, the problem is the OP's somewhat ungrateful, verging on bizarrely hostile responses to the help that has been given. But maybe that's just me?

He does seem to have a bit of a bee in his bonnet

It happens.