matching B&W 804d2 to 272/250dr

A 272 with 250dr and Xpsdr sounds like a very good combination.... Ps....Forget about being any kind of fish....be your own man...

Don't worry about being a mullet - its all about how it sounds - I have B&W 803D3 at the end of my 202/250DR and I don't care what anyone says - they sing

If your system is sounding good then don't let any "mullet-ness" force you on ... but then it also works as a great excuse to go on too ...

If you are looking for an upgrade path over the next years then the "odd one out" in your system, whether its the best or worst, gives you the root to piggy back on; I have always picked a component that is probably "too good" for the system I had at the time in the expectation that I would be jumping over that one when the time came. I'm not in that situation now as I'm trying to get to where I can stop - trouble is that what I have already is very much sounding like a stopping place

I think the combination you are proposing is a great one either for a stopping place or a jump-off point.

... and please lets not make this into a who can come up with the best fish thread !

Allan

Yes, the SU with the 804s is very much a mullet. But clearly you have seen the light and are now on the true path. The 272/250DR would be much better and with the addition of the XPS better still. My SL2s are probably in the same sort of ballpark as the B&Ws qualitywise, and they can take much better electronics all the way up to active 500s, and I'm sure the 804s will happily take a lot more. So I'd say that where you are going sounds like a good plaice. 

Although the 272 figures prominently in my imminent upgrade plans, I can't help but think certain aspects of the forum are becoming slightly predictable and formulaic. Whatever the question, the 272/250dr combo (oops, forgot the xpsdr!!) appears to be the answer! Ok, slightly tongue-in-cheek, but I'm sure you all know where I'm coming from. Can Naim be in danger of becoming a one trick pony (at least for us mere mortals who don't/can't aspire to 6+ boxes).

Timmo1341 posted:

Although the 272 figures prominently in my imminent upgrade plans, I can't help but think certain aspects of the forum are becoming slightly predictable and formulaic. Whatever the question, the 272/250dr combo (oops, forgot the xpsdr!!) appears to be the answer! Ok, slightly tongue-in-cheek, but I'm sure you all know where I'm coming from. Can Naim be in danger of becoming a one trick pony (at least for us mere mortals who don't/can't aspire to 6+ boxes).

There are quite a few 2 or 3 box Naim streaming setups, and the 272/250 is only one of them. So no, I wouldn't say it's a one trick pony at all. The important thing is to go to a dealer and listen for yourself and only use forum recommendations as a way to add new options to your shortlist.

ChrisSU posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Although the 272 figures prominently in my imminent upgrade plans, I can't help but think certain aspects of the forum are becoming slightly predictable and formulaic. Whatever the question, the 272/250dr combo (oops, forgot the xpsdr!!) appears to be the answer! Ok, slightly tongue-in-cheek, but I'm sure you all know where I'm coming from. Can Naim be in danger of becoming a one trick pony (at least for us mere mortals who don't/can't aspire to 6+ boxes).

There are quite a few 2 or 3 box Naim streaming setups, and the 272/250 is only one of them. So no, I wouldn't say it's a one trick pony at all. The important thing is to go to a dealer and listen for yourself and only use forum recommendations as a way to add new options to your shortlist.

I'm all ears! Please lay all those options on me to ensure I've overlooked nothing. I'm not interested in cd, I'm limited to absolute max of 4 boxes, I can't afford 552/500 pre or amp, my speakers will be ProAc D48r or, if I can afford them, K6. Look forward to your response : )

All with no more than 4 boxes:

N172XS + FlatCap + NAP 155XS

ND5XS + XP5XS + NAC 155 + NAP 155XS

NDX + XPSDR + NAC 202 + NAP 200DR

NDX + XPSDR + NAC 282 + NAP 200DR

NDX + XPSDR + SuperNait2 + HiCapDR

NDX/Supernait, with several power supply upgrades either box if you want.

NDS/Supernait, with choice of 3 PSUs on NDS

NDX/202/200

NDX/282/200

272/300

That's just some 2 or 3 box options for starters. When you've listened to them all, we'll start on the 4 box options! 

Adam Zielinski posted:

All with no more than 4 boxes:

N172XS + FlatCap + NAP 155XS

ND5XS + XP5XS + NAC 155 + NAP 155XS

NDX + XPSDR + NAC 202 + NAP 200DR

NDX + XPSDR + NAC 282 + NAP 200DR

NDX + XPSDR + SuperNait2 + HiCapDR

Thanks Adam - up until now I've pretty much discounted NDS or NDX simply because of the Naim curse of power supply 'upgradeability' and extra boxes. In order to get the best from my preferred speakers I need more power and grip than provided by your suggestions. The 250dr attracts because it's one box, but having heard the 300dr not sure if I'd ever be truly satisfied!  

Like most of life, It all comes down to compromise, and just deciding what has to give and where. If only I could cater for 6 boxes my path would be clear, but simply not possible if I want to keep wife, house, sanity etc..! It looks as though it's going to have to be that ubiquitous 272 teamed with 555 or xps and the 300. 

ChrisSU posted:

NDX/Supernait, with several power supply upgrades either box if you want.

NDS/Supernait, with choice of 3 PSUs on NDS

NDX/202/200

NDX/282/200

272/300

That's just some 2 or 3 box options for starters. When you've listened to them all, we'll start on the 4 box options! 

 

 

Other than the 300, not sure any of the other options would be a suitable match with my chosen speakers, but thanks for trying!

Timmo1341 posted:

ChrisSU posted:

NDX/Supernait, with several power supply upgrades either box if you want.

NDS/Supernait, with choice of 3 PSUs on NDS

NDX/202/200

NDX/282/200

272/300

That's just some 2 or 3 box options for starters. When you've listened to them all, we'll start on the 4 box options! 

 

 

Other than the 300, not sure any of the other options would be a suitable match with my chosen speakers, but thanks for trying!

It looks a bit like you're planning to buy speakers in the knowledge that they require more electronics than you're prepared to give them, weather that's in terms of budget, box count or both. If posh speakers need a beefy amp to drive them, that combo will need a top notch source to sound any good, and if you can't achieve this, I'd argue that you would have chosen the wrong speakers. Choose a system that works as a whole, rather than one component knowing that you will be hard pushed to find other components to match it. That's what dealers are for.

Timmo,

Not sure why you think you need a 300DR to drive 804D?

My non-DR 200 drove the 803D3D quite nicely thank you and the 250DR just makes them sing; I'm sure the 804's cannot be any harder to drive can they?

Of course if its because you like the sound of the 300DR then that's fine but I wouldn't be pushing the 300 because of the speakers.

... and Chris is spot on about the source too.

Allan

Allan Milne posted:

 

Timmo,

Not sure why you think you need a 300DR to drive 804D?

My non-DR 200 drove the 803D3D quite nicely thank you and the 250DR just makes them sing; I'm sure the 804's cannot be any harder to drive can they?

Of course if its because you like the sound of the 300DR then that's fine but I wouldn't be pushing the 300 because of the speakers.

... and Chris is spot on about the source too.

Allan

Sorry, Allan, you have the wrong end of the stick. I have never mentioned 804D speakers! I'm a ProAc lad through and through, and am planning to upgrade to the D48r or K6. I'm more than happy with the quality of the 272 as a source, but, subject of course to home demo, believe the 300 may be better suited to those speakers than the 250. Based upon dealer demos of both amps through ProAc D30r speakers I definitely prefer the 300. Unlike many on this forum I'm not source fixated, nor, it would appear, as formulaic in my approach to choosing what I like the sound of. 

Thanks for your suggestions - I didn't anticipate such serious responses to my slightly mischievous dig at the 272/xps/250dr fan club!! My own route will, of course, be determined by my own ears and the help and advice of my dealer.

Sorry Timmo, its an age thing, I got confused between your post and the OP; somehow thought you were the OP

very easy for an old man to get confused when these threads get all tangled up ...

enjoy the music and sorry again,

Allan

Allan Milne posted:

 

Sorry Timmo, its an age thing, I got confused between your post and the OP; somehow thought you were the OP

 

very easy for an old man to get confused when these threads get all tangled up ...

 

enjoy the music and sorry again,

Allan

No worries 

I see no reason to have a mischievous dig at anyone. The OP asked very specific questions, which I tried to answer. I'm not sure that there is any fanboy element there at all, and it goes without saying that people should buy whatever they like. 

OP here. Thanks all. The fish metaphor for me is helpful as taking value into consideration, its seems intuitive that the best sound for the money would come from a balanced system. The notion that if it sounds good to you then dont worry, while true, seems a bit superficial. Allan, your point noted on the match with your 803 d3's. thanks. Also HH for suggestion the 804s can handle more. The 803d3 not = to 804 d2 so at the risk of frustrating all here, may i rephrase?

272/250dr/xps/804d2(existing)

272/250dr/803 d3

272/300dr/804 d2

above three i believe roughly same incremental spend (though i stand to be corrected)

Peter

I don't think they're equal in spend - 803D3 are £12.5k !

It is so confusing of B&W to bring their new range out with the same numbers and only the suffix different ... my dealer suggested that (very roughly) the D3 models were almost equivalent to the D2 models a number numerically below (or level above) ... if true, then 803D3 similar to old 802D2

... don't know what the other models are but in the same vein your 804D2 would be similar to an 805D3 if it exists

... so you might like to look at 804D3 - again if they exist.

Allan

I think the 300dr is double the price of the 250dr, but yes if the latter can drive the 803's , make them sing as you say, then maybe thats the way to go. I suspect HH might accuse me of liking mullets......

... just another option for you to listen to at your dealers, more joy.

Allan

Presently listening to 272/250dr on demo. First impression, big improvement on vinyl, hi rez files and tidal not so much.

is the streamer and preamp on the 272 that much better than the superuniti?

Petersfi posted:

Presently listening to 272/250dr on demo. First impression, big improvement on vinyl, hi rez files and tidal not so much.

is the streamer and preamp on the 272 that much better than the superuniti?

 

Why not connect the 250DR to your Superuniti, then you'll know for sure.

Yep, Thought of that, worth a shot.

thanks

peter

Let us know your findings - it's always good to hear opinions based on actual listening rather than conjecture.

I've tried 804Ds with my ex NAP 250.2 (non-DR) and 135s. 

250.2 - not enough power and control,

135s - ok with control, but they sounded too bright, 

250+135s (bi-amp) - very fine sounding system, actually one of the best i've heard at home. 

From my point of view B&W is a great speaker, but you need a top notch source (in my case CDS3) + loads of power. If i chose them, i wwould use them with either bi-amp or a NAP 500. 

Best from Poland