upgrading 90/92

Do you like your current set?

As usual, Adam is spot on here.

But given the fact that you posted the question on this forum, I assume that there is a burning need to upgrade?

I don't know if it is just that the 90/92 need a service but the sound seem to have lack the imagery it used to  have and now seems very one dimensional and what I can only describe as like a flat wall of sound without any depth.

I don't have a need to upgrade but I am finding listening to music a bit edgy and as I am not technical regarding HI FI am just seeking some opinions. The main issue  is if it might just be better having the 90/92 serviced or upgrading. I have found a Nap 140 fully serviced and re-capped by Naim for £499.00 and get a god Nac 72 for about £400.00 although this needs a phono board fitting for vinyl and I have no idea what is involved in getting that fitted or what it would cost.

I recently added the Epos 5's as I had been using EPOS 11's and wondered if they would benefit from any upgrade of the 90/92

I currently have:

Naim CD5

Rega 3 with elys cartridge

Epos M15

90/92 with Flatcap running the pre-amp 

I have read in a few places that the CD5 is much better with a flatcap 2 so again would I be better getting the 90/92 serviced and investing in an FC 2 to run the CD player.

As I said I don't mind admitting to being rather confused and sometimes having sought advice from dealers have come away feeling a bit intimated. I am not really that bothered about all the techy stuff I just like music but want would value the opinion of people who are more knowledgeable.

Appreciate any guidance especially any thoughts on my comments regarding imagery, if I have used the correct terminology. I can only describe the sound like a wall of flat sound or a wave that just sits in front of me with no depth.

???? 

Chris 

I think you should just have your set serviced - Darran at Class A is your man.

Use the rest of the funds for upgrading the sources - be it a flatcap for your CD or a turntable upgrade, depending on what format the bulk of your music is in.

I had that combo while ago with a FC with a pair of Royds.  I would not bother getting them serviced. Just  sell them and use the funds to upgrade to something better. Even a used Uniti will give you more satisfaction. Good luck.

Hi Adam

its a mix of Vinyl & CD's although I have bought a new CD for some time and can't see me adding to what I have as I have been buying more vinyl recently as it it now more widely available. 

Is it correct that newer power supply such as flatcap 2 could run the CD5 and the pre-amp?  

As I said, I am no techie and am not the kind of guy who over analyses stuff. 

Do my comments regarding the lack of imagery and flatness sound like something that could be due to age of 90/92 and would this be resolved by a service or is this just a trait of Naim equipment at the entry level stuff I have?

Chris  

Tony2011 posted:

I had that combo while ago with a FC with a pair of Royds.  I would not bother getting them serviced. Just  sell them and use the funds to upgrade to something better. Even a used Uniti will give you more satisfaction. Good luck.

It was the upgrading to "something better" I was seeking help with Tony. 

I'm with Tony2011 on this one. I had a 90/92/CD3/Intro combo with an LP12 and finally realised there was far more out there for me in Naim land. After a misadventure into Home Theatre land, I came to my senses and (after much moaning by the family for trying, and failing, to create a Cinema in my lounge) I got into streaming and bought a Uniti2 fed by a UnitiServe. If I had that time again, I think I would have spent a few more quid on a SuperUniti and saved a few quid on the UnitiServe  and ripped on my Mac and served with a NAS.

Chris, my advice? Move on. There is a whole new wonderful world out there called streaming. The SQ is wonderful and the ability to store, search, explore and immediately access music is nothing short of revelatory.

Lar posted:

Hi Adam

its a mix of Vinyl & CD's although I have bought a new CD for some time and can't see me adding to what I have as I have been buying more vinyl recently as it it now more widely available. 

Is it correct that newer power supply such as flatcap 2 could run the CD5 and the pre-amp?  

As I said, I am no techie and am not the kind of guy who over analyses stuff. 

Do my comments regarding the lack of imagery and flatness sound like something that could be due to age of 90/92 and would this be resolved by a service or is this just a trait of Naim equipment at the entry level stuff I have?

Chris  

Generally Naim advise servicing their equipment every 10 years or so. If your boxes have not been serviced this may account for the 'flatness' you are experiencing.

Of course the modern era Naims are very good, but they will require a much higher financial outlay.

Since you are using mostly vinyls I would also look at an option of a higher spec turntable. This would follow the logic of 'source first'.

As you are familiar with Rega, I can highly recommend RP6 with Exact II or indeed RP10 with Apheta or Aphelion. I had them all and each is a fantastic turntable - my favourites are RP6 /Exact II and RP10 /Aphelion into Rega Aria phonostage. Than there is always LP12...

nigelb posted:

I'm with Tony2011 on this one. I had a 90/92/CD3/Intro combo with an LP12 and finally realised there was far more out there for me in Naim land. After a misadventure into Home Theatre land, I came to my senses and (after much moaning by the family for trying, and failing, to create a Cinema in my lounge) I got into streaming and bought a Uniti2 fed by a UnitiServe. If I had that time again, I think I would have spent a few more quid on a SuperUniti and saved a few quid on the UnitiServe  and ripped on my Mac and served with a NAS.

Chris, my advice? Move on. There is a whole new wonderful world out there called streaming. The SQ is wonderful and the ability to store, search, explore and immediately access music is nothing short of revelatory.

I do stream music but i find the immediate accessibility in life especially the ability to access any piece of music you want in seconds devalues its attraction.. great when friends are around and I can just connect to you tube spotify etc...and play "pick your favourite tune" but i love sitting with my vinyl and coming across diamonds in the mine.... might be the selfish streak in me.

Thanks for the input but I was hoping for some suggestions re upgrading not switching completely to streaming... no offence 

Chris

Lar posted:

nigelb posted:

I'm with Tony2011 on this one. I had a 90/92/CD3/Intro combo with an LP12 and finally realised there was far more out there for me in Naim land. After a misadventure into Home Theatre land, I came to my senses and (after much moaning by the family for trying, and failing, to create a Cinema in my lounge) I got into streaming and bought a Uniti2 fed by a UnitiServe. If I had that time again, I think I would have spent a few more quid on a SuperUniti and saved a few quid on the UnitiServe  and ripped on my Mac and served with a NAS.

Chris, my advice? Move on. There is a whole new wonderful world out there called streaming. The SQ is wonderful and the ability to store, search, explore and immediately access music is nothing short of revelatory.

I do stream music but i find the immediate accessibility in life especially the ability to access any piece of music you want in seconds devalues its attraction.. great when friends are around and I can just connect to you tube spotify etc...and play "pick your favourite tune" but i love sitting with my vinyl and coming across diamonds in the mine.... might be the selfish streak in me.

Thanks for the input but I was hoping for some suggestions re upgrading not switching completely to streaming... no offence 

Chris

Chris dear boy, streaming (with ripped CDs and full fat Tidal as opposed to second rate Spotify and third rate You Tube - sorry) is an upgrade. As you have taken the time to purchase and rip your CDs I simply can't see how the 'convenience' of streaming 'devalues' its attraction! It sounds better and is immediately accessible. What is not to like?

Mate, the SQ on a carefully ripped CD served to a decent streamer (or streamer/amp) will always trounce a mediocre CD player (sorry but the CD5 is mediocre in comparison). Wake up and smell the roses. Or continue in the dark ages trying in vain to achieve the unachievable. You seek advice on here but seem to reject the wealth of experience on offer in this esteemed place.

Now that is not to say CD is dead and buried. If you are talking about a CDX2 and above, then there is life in the old dog yet. But we are not. With respect your system is, let's say elderly and the TLC required is going to cost you and will probably not give you what you are looking for. Move on I say, move on.

I think you are in need of some tough love my friend.

nigelb posted:

Mate, the SQ on a carefully ripped CD served to a decent streamer (or streamer/amp) will always trounce a mediocre CD player (sorry but the CD5 is mediocre in comparison). Wake up and smell the roses. Or continue in the dark ages trying in vain to achieve the unachievable. You seek advice on here but seem to reject the wealth of experience on offer in this esteemed place.

 

Hogwash, couple of things, One, the CD5 is not a mediocre sounding CD player, and Two, the sound quality of a decent streamer, to these ears, is definitely NOT superior to the CD format. I think the CD5 betters most ripped music, Sorry!!!!

CD may be old school, but these are the same folks who said vinyl was dead, and an inferior format, neither which is true.

Sell on the 90/92, try to get a 72/ 140 combo, it is a much better option than putting more money into your 90/92.

For roughly the same money as the 72/140, or 102/180 combo, look into the new Naim integrated amps, a Nait XS2, and for that matter a Nait 5Si will better your current combo, they may be just what you're looking for.

Some years ago I went from a 92/90 to 72/140. The improvement was fairly massive, so I would strongly advise you to follow the advice of Badlands and others to sell your amps rather than service, if you can afford to upgrade second hand. I later went from 72/180 to a Nait XS and preferred the Nait's presentation (but others might not). Both the Nait XS and 72 can be further upgraded with a Hicap if funds allow further down the road. 

I might agree with both options here. The 92/90 was a piece of magic in it's day. I'd be getting it and the FC serviced and recapped with the aim of using it as a second system in an office or garage etc. while aiming to come up with funds to get a new amp (perhaps that serviced 72/140 you mentioned) for the main system.

I know that's a completely different set of expenses but a serviced 92/90 doesn't have a resale value high enough to justify the service cost but is too good gear to just put into retirement. 

Thanks guys for the helpful advice... was a bit taken aback by the streaming comments and thought it a bit radical..... the guy obviously like his streaming but its a while since i have been called "dear boy"... little patronising.

I think I am going to go with the 72/140 option and give the 90/92 to my daughter as she has a nice, well in my opinion, for a 19 year old, system. rather that than sell for nothing as I agree it is too good to trash...

Last q guys... the flatcap I have is a one that only has one connection facility. is it worth me getting  a flatcap 2 so that i can also run the CD and the pre-amp?

Once again thanks to those members who considered my question and provided valuable input, very much appreciated.

I am just popping out to listen to some real music through a streamer as I hear they are fantastic and blow any other medium away.... god its hard dragging yourself into the 21st century

Lar posted:

Thanks guys for the helpful advice... was a bit taken aback by the streaming comments and thought it a bit radical..... the guy obviously like his streaming but its a while since i have been called "dear boy"... little patronising.

I think I am going to go with the 72/140 option and give the 90/92 to my daughter as she has a nice, well in my opinion, for a 19 year old, system. rather that than sell for nothing as I agree it is too good to trash...

Last q guys... the flatcap I have is a one that only has one connection facility. is it worth me getting  a flatcap 2 so that i can also run the CD and the pre-amp?

Once again thanks to those members who considered my question and provided valuable input, very much appreciated.

I am just popping out to listen to some real music through a streamer as I hear they are fantastic and blow any other medium away.... god its hard dragging yourself into the 21st century

  

Yes, I apologise if you took offence to the Dear Boy comment, it is a turn of phrase and I had no intention to patronise you.

I would agree that the main issue with your system IMHO is the amplification rather than the source. I would also agree that there is little point in spending money servicing ageing amplification which was good in its time but things have moved on. I am not sure even a serviced 90/92 will give you what you are looking for. As I said I also had the 90/92/flatcap combo but eventually realised they were holding things back. I even went active with 2 x 90s and an Ixo. Such a dead end.

I would certainly not want to push you towards streaming if you are not ready and you are not yet convinced if its superiority. I just felt that if you were going to consider ditching your current amplification it would be at least an opportunity to explore the streaming option with a streamer/amp. That's all.

In NigelB's defence he is 'unfortunately' right about the streaming part. Most of NAIM streamers (especially NDX nd NDS) have very advanced DACs which make listening to ripped or downloaded music a real pleasure.

Perhaps an option to consider then....

What rack is your amp sitting on? I ask because at the lower end of the separate pre/power range, many people see the cost of a proper rack as too high, and end up stacking them. I think this is a mistake, as the boxes still benefit from proper support, and the pre still benefits from having some physical distance from the power amp and Flatcap. Maybe you already have this sorted, but if not.....?

When my 92/90 was due a service, I chose to sell it and move on, but as already discussed, resale values now are not very high, so keeping it for another system makes some sense. Besides, who knows....maybe they'll come back from their service sounding great, and you'll no longer feel the need to move on. Then again, if you have the cash, there is all sorts of fun to be had.