Classe vs Naim pre-amps

Allan Milne posted:

 

Doing some scouting around the pre-amp area and talking to some people there is a slight concern with Naim that their amps are a bit long in the tooth

Morning,

I'd want to hear a NAC282, say, at home rather than rely on hearsay.

Chris

Most of the Naim pre amps were significantly updated and refreshed a few years ago with the DR powersuplly tech, this transformed them and gave SQ a real boost. There are also the new mid market combined DAC/Preamps such as the 272 and 172. If you go back to the forumsover time, people were saying the same thing about being long in the tooth 6 or so years ago. I assume it's because people get confused and compare to regular mass market consumer electronic product then changes every couple of years or so,

if Naim felt there was a cost effective way of improving them they would, or if sales slowed to the point the product was unsustainable they would cut.

Now I understand that sales of many Naim items including the lower to mid range NACs (Upto 282) and dedicated streamers  have slowed for one successful UK dealer, but Naim NAPs and the integrated NAC/DAC of  the N272 have been selling like hot cakes to a lot of new customer base... but there is also a view that Naim as a consequence of its own success has a lot of NAC product out there, and the top end of the NAC range is arguably second to none or at least part of a very small group of equivalent product... and as it lasts for a life time with servicing every ten years or so  it sounds like brand new.. unlike digital electronics, quality analogue electronics just does get superseded in the same way in terms of our SQ. It just might be that new export markets such as the Far East are busy buying the NACs and other components extending that base further..

Chris, absolutely ... I'm just, in my anal way, trying to get a hold of the "big picture" in terms of what is available for me to audition ... and was slightly intrigued as to the lack of mention of Classe as an alternative

Simon - no criticism intended for Naim, just repeating an opinion that had been put to me. I agree with your observations although the DR upgrade doesn't really apply to the pre's, other than via their PS.

Luckily being in  the wilds I haven't got access to auditioning facilities for all those other alternatives out there (otherwise could be here for the next 10 years) and am quite happy to stick to what my only dealer has available ... which just happens to be Naim, Linn, Classe, Arcam and Riga ... the latter two don't seem to offer any upgrade to my 202.

The Naim pre/power synergy will still be a prime concern when I do some listning at the end of December.

Allan

Allan, indeed however the DR PSU  is a critical part of the NAC performance. For the lower to mid level you have a choice of upgrade options, but for the higher end, 252, 552 and Statatement you have no choice, the PSU is a specific and non interchangeable  part of the NAC... 

As I say I think some confuse Naim with a mass market consumer digital electronics provider with built in obsolescence when they make such comments...

An other example is the mid/bass driver of my ATC speakers, it is a device designed for professional and consumer product by ATC... it is still being used as it is unsurpassed in its application and is still winning awards, and I believe it actually outdates the Naim preamps.

Allan Milne posted:

 

Chris, absolutely ... I'm just, in my anal way, trying to get a hold of the "big picture" in terms of what is available for me to audition ... and was slightly intrigued as to the lack of mention of Classe as an alternative

 

Fair enough. I had a single ended valve amp and efficient speakers before I heard Naim. There is more than one way of skinning a cat (Ugh, horrible phrase).

C.

It appears that you may have caught the upgrade bug :-)

I only have experience with the Classe CAP-100 which is an integrated amp. I used to drive some B&W speakers albeit a low-end model (CDM 1SE) with the Classe about 16 years ago. Back in the days the Classe and B&W combination was often said to be a good one, though B&W speakers are capable of sounding great at the end of many other gear which include Plinius, Naim. I used to own the CDM 1SE for more than 10 years and the N805 for a brief period.

Since the B&Ws sound great at the end of the NAC 202 and NAP 250 DR, I suppose it might be worthwhile to just stick with Naim? The Classe will just give you a different sound. The only way to determine if the Classe will work out for you, as you have figured out, is to audition the gear in your system with your speakers(and ears) to find out yourself. Apart from sound quality, one thing that I like about Classe is the build quality. The amps are very well built, and the remote control is built like a brick (solid steel) and weighs 3 or 4 times the remote of the Naim.

I would try the NAC 282 or N272 and compare it with the equivalent Classe preamp that's available if a change is desired.

Allan...

I see you are going to drive us all insane here love it!

As to Classe - if you are planning on building a surround sound system to play back 5.1 audio, than Classe is a good bet.

For stereo systems - hard to beat NAIM or LINN.

Adam

Why nobody considering Chord for dac/pre, arent we considerin hugo/tt/dave good if not the best dacs, if i did not go with 272/PS route because i like the Naim sound and brand, dave + a power amp would be on my first to try list, and the price is almost at 272/PS level 

Adam,

... it's because I am a little isolated both geographically and communication-wise that I keep this forum up front - its the only window into the HiFi world that I really have

This is a watershed time for me as I've done the first trench of upgrades (speakers, 250DR, Krystal) after my retirement last year and now want to get to the end-point, then I'll join Grame's thread on "have you stopped" ... and then i'll be quiet or maybe not

As I said before, good job my dealer is not accessible or I'd be driving him insane too!

Appreciate what you say about the Classe, had thought along these lines too - very lucky I don't watch TV or the home cinema thread would be getting blasted as well.

Allan

Emre,

Yes the Chord Electronic DACs are on my list but I still need a pre for my LP12.

In very broad terms the decision is between

* Linn Klimax or Akurate DSM.

* Naim pre + nDAC + PS

* Naim pre + Chord Dac.

... remembering that I'm primarily concerned with digital playback not internet services.

... and all will be listened too ... or maybe not all ...

Allan

Hi Allan - that was a bit of sweet 'revenge' for making me contemplate the mechanics of cleansing vital parts of my anatomy with my tongue Do you know how many times I've fallen off my couch trying to do that??? 

On a serious note: a friend of mine is also a Naim dealer. Apparently there is soemthing being brewed in the skunkworks of Naim which would fit perfectly to your needs of being a high quality pre-amp and streamer. It's a bit delayed - I guess they want to get it right. 

So my advice is: wait for 6 months, listen to few carefully selected options in the meantime, but don't commit. If the new product materialises - great. If it turns out to be just a rumour, at least you would have researched and tested all the good options.

Adam

adam - aha ... explains why you were a bit later on the forum this morning

Rumours are funny ... I heard that Naim dealers got a letter from Naim indicating that Naim were focusing on their new Uniti range this year and that dealers should stop telling customers that there might be new amplification on the way - there won't! 

I hate sensible daddy advice ... I don't want to wait ... I want it now ... stomp feet ... now , now , now ... off to my bedroom for a sulk

I could fill in the time though by putting in a proper home network instead of my Ethernet over the mains ... and then components and Fraim could probably do with being disassembled and put together again ... got to have something to do to fill in the winter hours

... and before anyone tells me to listen to more music ... can't do this at decent levels while my nearest and dearest is watching the telly

Allan

Allan, as you say, the Classe Cp-800i is a bit long in the tooth so you might want to look at the newer Sigma SSP.

I have this coupled with a Classe Amp 2 & Innous Zenith for stereo which I am very happy with. It also can also be used with an Amp 5 for 5.1 or a combination of Amp 2 & 5 for 7.1 audio, neither of which I am likely to use.

As it happen about 6 months after I bought the Classe pre/power they introduced a Sigma 2200i integrated which combines the stereo functionality of the SSP with the Amp 2 power, I have not heard it but I think it would probably have been fine for me at a somewhat lower price, so sometimes it does pay to wait.

Allan - all good things come to those who wait

The hell they do ... all you get are piles from sitting on the fence (ouch)

Allan

Allan Milne posted:

 

The hell they do ... all you get are piles from sitting on the fence (ouch)

 

Allan

 

Now, now, now Allan - remarks like this will get you crossed off the Christmass Card list