Upgrade Quandary

Some would say the biggest box count reduction of all is to rip your CDs and ditch them in the loft, with a streamer then replacing your CD player. This works for me, but others would say getting rid of a CDX2 is heresy. Your call.....

As for starting again with 272/XPS/250DR, it's a tricky one, in that you can't make a fair comparison until your current system has been serviced, and judging by your dates, this is somewhat overdue. Adding an NDX is another possibility, with some pros and cons vs the 272. Probably cheaper than starting again.

I would be tempted to sell the CDX2, 82, 250 & HC & go 272/250.  My guess is the 'sound' will be different as when I moved from CDX2 to NDX showed,  CDX2 is about as good as it gets for raw CD rock'n'roll, & that (arguably) beats the NDX on that genre,  but it is so much better for everything else, detail atmosphere sound stage & sophistication.  272 has a good pre-amp & streamer & will probably show up the same differences as did my CDX2 vs NDX.  But the big - probably the biggest - change you will get is the olive 250 to 250DR. 

I would do this.  Ask your dealer to demo a 272/250 against a NDX/282/250.  If you like what the former does then that's the way to go. If you prefer the latter then have the 82/250 serviced and trade the CDX for the NDX.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Chunky, I was using a 82,Supercap,250  and CDI (LP12 Sold a few years ago) as I wanted to get into streaming I purchased a third party device about three years ago it was OK.

I changed to a NDX in 2015 this was a revelation in the Olive system miles ahead of the third party streamer a very very nice combination indeed complimented the Olive kit very well.

The only problem was it so good it  wetted my appetite to to listen to the new Naim Black stuff and consequently I went through a full upgrade.

I would suggest as others have is to visit your dealer to listen to the options as described I've heard the 272, XPSdr and 250dr combination and it is a cracking system but as I already had the NDX  I ended up taking the route I did in my profile.

The point made of selling the CDX to fund a NDX is a good one as when my NDX was installed the CDI just gathered dust and was never used.

Just take your time at the dealers don't be rushed and if decide on a streamer your dealer should set up your NAS or whatever and help with any network issues, enjoy your journey.

Before getting my current system I had a CDS3 and fully serviced 82, Hicap and 250 and I don't miss it in terms of sound quality. With both the 272 and NDX you get an excellent internet radio, which I find really good. Either option is good, it just depends on how many boxes you want. Don't forget that if you go the 272 route you will need to buy a phono stage. 

I'll offer a different choice.

Sell the CDX2 and buy 2 squeezebox touches (keep 1 as a spare) and a power supply made by that chap in Israel. I was shocked at the quality of this combo and promptly sold my NDX.

This should leave some funds available which could be used for a super cap or some of those lovely records and cds.

Thanks very much for the replies which are much appreciated.

Chrissu: It does make sense if I go for a streamer to sell the CDX2, but like a lot of other members on the forum, I do enjoy the CDX2.

Mike B: I note your comments on the NDX bringing sound stage, atmosphere and sophistication and this does sound appealing. If I have one (minor) gripe about my current set-up, it's that it can sometimes, for want of a better word, sound a bit too "lively" on some material. I have noticed comments on this forum suggesting that the black boxes are perhaps a bit more refined than the olive boxes, but without losing too much of the traditional strengths of the Naim sound. The 250DR does seem a tempting proposition.

Strat Fender: Yes, this is a good suggestion and should help me to make the correct decision.

PCD: Interesting that you placed the NDX in an olive system very successfully which keeps my options open. Like you, I suspect that once I hear the black boxes, I may well be tempted to upgrade further.

HH: From reading other threads, I know you (and others) are a big fan of the 272 and that you have previously owned some high level Naim systems. In fact, reading some of your posts got me thinking about box count. It is encouraging that you do not miss the CDS3, 82, 250 and Hi-cap.

Man with no Naim: Food for thought.

Clearly, I need to make an appointment at my local dealer to fully consider all the options.

Chunky posted:

Thanks very much for the replies which are much appreciated.

Chrissu: It does make sense if I go for a streamer to sell the CDX2, but like a lot of other members on the forum, I do enjoy the CDX2.

Mike B: I note your comments on the NDX bringing sound stage, atmosphere and sophistication and this does sound appealing. If I have one (minor) gripe about my current set-up, it's that it can sometimes, for want of a better word, sound a bit too "lively" on some material. I have noticed comments on this forum suggesting that the black boxes are perhaps a bit more refined than the olive boxes, but without losing too much of the traditional strengths of the Naim sound. The 250DR does seem a tempting proposition.

Strat Fender: Yes, this is a good suggestion and should help me to make the correct decision.

PCD: Interesting that you placed the NDX in an olive system very successfully which keeps my options open. Like you, I suspect that once I hear the black boxes, I may well be tempted to upgrade further.

HH: From reading other threads, I know you (and others) are a big fan of the 272 and that you have previously owned some high level Naim systems. In fact, reading some of your posts got me thinking about box count. It is encouraging that you do not miss the CDS3, 82, 250 and Hi-cap.

Man with no Naim: Food for thought.

Clearly, I need to make an appointment at my local dealer to fully consider all the options.

Chunky, the NDX I found was very refined in my Olive system, regarding upgrades of the Olive system I had the recommended upgrade path from Naim at the Bristol show was to change the  250 to a 250dr first then the Pre Amp and finally the Supercap food for thought but it's all a personal choice and if box count is important you can't really go wrong with a 272, XPSdr and 250dr.

ChrisSU posted:

Some would say the biggest box count reduction of all is to rip your CDs and ditch them in the loft, with a streamer then replacing your CD player. This works for me, but others would say getting rid of a CDX2 is heresy. Your call.....

 

Add to that ripping allthe LPs, then you really have an opportunity for reduced box count, and reduced disc storage space (both LP and CD). It works - I know because I did it!

By doing that your source would only be digital, which opens up other possibilities, especially if selling things likely LP12 realises some cash. Then you need a music store: if you go for one that also,includes the software to render a digital music steam it can plug directly to a DAC, so avoiding the potential pitfalls of streaming files across a network, though they can be used to do thta as well possibilities include Melco, Innuos Zenith, MacMini/Audirvana, or, if you can wait both for confirmation of its sound quality and for its release, the new UNiti Core). Then for DACs, if you go for one with a built in volume control you can feed direct to the power amp, allowing disposal of your preamp if you no longer have analogue sources: the Chord Hugo, HugoTT and at the top end Dave work well this way. That's just 2 boxes before the power amp, imcluding the music store. (THough the MacMini-Hugo combination would need an isolator in between - an extra small box.) Much about all of these can found on these forums, with most of those who have compared preferring the Chord DACs to Naim, while a few people have got their hands on early models of the Core, with some threads discussing, though still early days.

Thanks for the reply and details of options. I have been keeping an eye on coverage of the new Core on this forum. I didn't realise you could rip LPs as well - how do you go about this?

Thanks.

What I did was take a 'tape record' output from my preamp and connect to my computer which had a reasonable quality soundcard, and use a free program called Audacity (or it was free when I used it, 7 or 8 years ago now). If the preamp doesn't have such an output in parallel with normal play then a second 

Better would be to use a dedicated ADC with a usb output to feed to a computer, and there are some fairly inexpensive ones around. One I investigated recently for another purpose is the Apogee Mini-Me, which has received glowing reviews - but though good it proved unsuitable for my purpose as its latency was too high (not a problem for ripping LPs, but I was evaluating as a feed for live music play, when the  slight delay was a problem). This one sometimes appears on a well-known online auction site for around £3-400. 

Audacity allows you to choose what the resolution, so hi res is possible. It has a host of edit features, some of which can be useful, notably the ability to remove click and scratch sounds, both automated and manually (latter better for anything other than a very sharp spike - happy to give more detail of my approaches if/when it may be of help) - done well the result can be inaudible in most be cases, or at least imperceptible. Another feature is reduction of general surface noise, though depends on how much, and it may be audible, and whether the result is better than the surface noise depends amongst other things on how bad the noise was and what the music is. You can also edit spaces between tracks if desired (and gap when turning over), or even delete tracks you don't like. That's all I remember using, but as I said, numerous other things, including being able to alter time (speed) without affecting pitch, for example if you felt a piece of music sounded great apart from being played too slow or fast you could fix it!

A side benefit I found was that methodically ripping all my LPs forced me to go through them all, and I took the opportunity to listen to them all, including some I hadn't played for a long time (and in a very small number of cases decideD to abandon the rip and forget about the record).

I forgot to add: although with some you can just use a nested file structure and apprropriate naming, most streamers use "metadata" in the file to search, and display what is playing. The following may sound offputting, but is not difficult, nor very time-consuming, provided you get it right from the start, hence adding this note:

CDs have metadata embedded, which is retained on ripping, however it is not always correct or consistent, particularly with classical music (e.g. different recordings of the same music might have genre as symphonic, orchestral, or simply classical, composer may have full name, which may have different spellings, or some with surname first others surname last, and recording artist might be orchestra, soloist or conductor etc).

It is a real pain to discover this some time down the line and have to go back and find and fix, so best get in the habit of checking every album as a matter of course, though at the start possibly best rip a dozen or so different things first, to then look at what is showing for each and so be better able to determine what things are important to be sure are correct. If lucky incorrect ones will be few.

LPs will have no embedded metadata so that will need adding manually from the start, but first decide what are the minimum details, which may be easier after doing some CD ripping and getting a feel for the metadata.

There is software around to assist editing metadata, including batching similar files, and some can search online databases to fill in missing information if there is sufficient for it to recognise the album. Others with more experience can probably advise better than I - being unaware I failed to do address metadata when I ripped my LPs and CDs and now have many 100s of files to either add where missing or correct inconsistencies, and presently rely on file structure where things don't show up through metadata searching, which depending on what the streaming software is like can be more or less of an irritation.

IB: Thanks for all the helpful advice, which I will bear in mind - I appreciate you taking the time to respond in such detail.

Chunky,

You have many options, and I suspect there is more than one right way to proceed.  You have much good advice above.  A good dealer will help with demos and perhaps can give you an idea (maybe even demo?) the SQ improvement from servicing, vs trade in cost, of pieces that you may wish to keep.  I appears that you have kept and enjoyed your gear a long time - not been consumed by "upgradeitis."

Perhaps the big decisions you face are:  Do I want to stay with separates or go the 272/PS/250 route?  Do I want to get into the digital world of streaming?  How attached are you to vinyl?  Do you want to go in "small" steps over time, or just get it over with?  How much money are you willing to invest, and can you spend it all now or over time?

For what its worth, the most profound sonic improvements I have made were:  adding an XPS to my CDX and later to nDAC;   Adding (olive) supercap to my 282;  Upgrading my 250.2 to 250DR.

Best of luck,

Charlie

Thanks Charlie. Yes, I have had my system for quite a long time with no upgrades.  For many years I did not keep up to date with what was happening in the hi-if world and just enjoyed the music.  To some extent, discovering this forum around 18 months ago is what has piqued my interest in possible upgrades! I have read lots of good things about the 250DR and the XPSDR.

Since getting the CDX2, I have found that I am listening to vinyl less than I used to, so I have much to ponder.

Chunky posted:

Thanks Charlie. Yes, I have had my system for quite a long time with no upgrades.  For many years I did not keep up to date with what was happening in the hi-if world and just enjoyed the music.  To some extent, discovering this forum around 18 months ago is what has piqued my interest in possible upgrades! I have read lots of good things about the 250DR and the XPSDR.

Since getting the CDX2, I have found that I am listening to vinyl less than I used to, so I have much to ponder.

I was much the same but the purchase of a NDX changed all that as previously stated.