CDX2.2 + 555PS vs NDS + 555PSDR.... the first shootout results

Sounds like a fun day Adam! Interesting results. 

Having worked all day.....  I am actually very jealous.. ....will have to give some thought to your conclusions...

This should be interesting - I find the 555PS on both of those sources a real disappointment and detracts from the overall source enjoyment by drawing focus to the deficiencies in both. Now an XPS2DR on both of those would be a better shoot out - and for me  the CDX2 is a more enjoyable sound.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

This should be interesting - I find the 555PS on both of those sources a real disappointment and detracts from the overall source enjoyment by drawing focus to the deficiencies in both. Now an XPS2DR on both of those would be a better shoot out - and for me  the CDX2 is a more enjoyable sound.

 

Simon - even on NDS? That's what I was testing.

On NDX - I agree - 555PS was too much for that source, XPSDR being a much better fir.

No, NDS the 555PS(DR) works supreme.. sorry I saw NDS but read NDX .... Naimitus

S

Adam, it sounds like you are having an interesting day.

   "The same track was used for comparison"

Have you listened to only one track?  What was the music?  I say this because I allways try to listen to a variety of music tracks when making comparisons.  By your description I assume only one source rig was connected to preamp at a time?

Charlie

Adam,

Interesting and I'm not surprised.   A little while ago I compared my CDS3 against the NDS (wav) and no doubt the CDP was more involving, more fluid and just an all up better listen.......imo. 

Regards,

Lindsay

CharlieP posted:

Adam, it sounds like you are having an interesting day.

   "The same track was used for comparison"

Have you listened to only one track?  What was the music?  I say this because I allways try to listen to a variety of music tracks when making comparisons.  By your description I assume only one source rig was connected to preamp at a time?

Charlie

Charlie - I actually deliberately used only one track to run a 1:1 comparison. 
Manu Katche Album: Neighborhood, Track: Number One (2nd track on the album). It has a range of really well recorded instruments accross the audio spectrum.

Both sources were connected to the pre-amp at the same time, each with its individual PSUs.

Adam, whilst your are being curious, you can come round here and experiment with moving my 500 around in the rack. I put the NDS and the CDS3 on a par. This given my recent speaker demos. I have a CDS3 but have only heard the NDS at dealers. CDX was below this level IMO. Is your trial fair?

Dave

Bodger posted:

Adam, whilst your are being curious, you can come round here and experiment with moving my 500 around in the rack. I put the NDS and the CDS3 on a par. This given my recent speaker demos. I have a CDS3 but have only heard the NDS at dealers. CDX was below this level IMO. Is your trial fair?

Dave

Up for a challange Dave

As to a fair trial.... I think it was unfair: HiLine was used on the CDX2 and SuperLumina on the NDS. When I changed from HiLine to SuperLumina on my NDS the improvement was very, very clear. 
But somehow.... CDX2 came out of this contest with its puck held high (was going to write head, but it doesn't have a head...).

This was probably the biggest positive surprise of the day.

I only heard CDS3 + XPS at my friends, running into a 552 /500. So cannot really compare it to my CDX2 + 555PS. 

Adam, I never had a 555 on my old CDX2. Only XPS. I found the cd with 282 at the time a bit harsh. Even moving to 252 with the CDX2 gave a bright sound and a bit fatiguing. It was only when the CDS3 arrived did things settle. I found the XPS to 555 a small gain at the time through a 252/300 combo. Did you run XPS prior to 555 with your CDX2?

Dave

Bodger, did you run your CDX2 on full fat Fraim  with Hiline? Those were they key items that tamed the CDX2 and transformed its sound.. far more than adding an XPS2 in my experience. I run my CDX2 native on a bottom ff Fraim shelf with my 252 now. I just wish I had discovered the benefit of full fat Fraim with my CDX2 sooner. It would have saved faffing around with sorbothane, power supplies and other supports. Absolutely no fatigue, and certainly no brightness at all now, just warm, rich and bouncing sound.. really suits rock and pop, and voices such as Bon Dylan which on other CD players or lesser DACs can sound thin and weedy. I have since sold my CDS3, but my CDX2 ain't going nowhere 

BTW the analogue reconstruction techniques between the CDX2 and NDS are quite different with a very different digital path, so you will definitely appreciate differences between the two.. as you know analogue reconstruction is an inexact process.

Simon

An interesting comparison, Adam although obviously limited to the common source material i.e. CD redbook resolution. At best, you are comparing how the 2 DACs sound when fed with CD resolution music but even then there are variables introduced by the hardware e.g. error correction in the CD player and conversion/unpacking of WAV files to PCM by the NDS (to say nothing of the delivery of the files to the NDS)

I've never owned a Naim CD player and perhaps I've missed out out on something special (I suspect this may well be the case) having first purchased a ND5XS and upgraded from there. However, there is obviously more to the NDS than redbook resolution playback which is why you own one.

sjbabbey posted:

However, there is obviously more to the NDS than redbook resolution playback which is why you own one.

Indeed - being a rational person, I could convince myself that I rip every CD anyway and could use NDS only.
But as it turns out I'm not that rational after all

I own hundreds of high-resolution albums - so NDS is an absolute joy to use. 
As far as CDs - I have weeks when I don't listen to one, using downloads, rips and vinyl. Then a change of mood and CD works non-stop...  I find that in particular jazz sounds really good on my CDX2.

As someone once wrote on this forum - a different source for different music genres and moods.

Indeed Adam 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Bodger, did you run your CDX2 on full fat Fraim  with Hiline? Those were they key items that tamed the CDX2 and transformed its sound.. far more than adding an XPS2 in my experience. I run my CDX2 native on a bottom ff Fraim shelf with my 252 now. I just wish I had discovered the benefit of full fat Fraim with my CDX2 sooner. It would have saved faffing around with sorbothane, power supplies and other supports. Absolutely no fatigue, and certainly no brightness at all now, just warm, rich and bouncing sound.. really suits rock and pop, and voices such as Bon Dylan which on other CD players or lesser DACs can sound thin and weedy. I have since sold my CDS3, but my CDX2 ain't going nowhere 

BTW the analogue reconstruction techniques between the CDX2 and NDS are quite different with a very different digital path, so you will definitely appreciate differences between the two.. as you know analogue reconstruction is an inexact process.

Simon

 

 

Simon,

I did have it on a proper Fraim and on the top shelf. I added the hi-line also and was quite impressed with that right out of the box. It really brought things together a lot. I had the XPS2 in installed by then also. For 2 years it was in large and pretty bright room so that would not have helped. It was a 2005 purchase so perhaps the model has also matured internally over the years. When I changed to CDS3 I preferred this I miss the front loading drawer though.

Dave

any classification Digital ( NDS ) vs CD ( CD2X ) vs vinyl on different genres?  What is your preference?  

I try to compare some albums all with different results, it comes to quality of mastering rather then the genre. 

Some Blue Note albums are a delight in vinyl ( specially 45s ) but not in all, even there are differences in vinyl pressing of the same album.

take "Cool Strutin" i have digital, cd, xrcd,mono LP and LP33..... and i can say the xdcd is the best close to digital HD but vinyl is not that good to deserve the hassle. 

i recently bought a turntable and making comparisons is making me wonder, if we can not find a good AAA cut with good mastering what is the point of turntable, it does not sound better that digital, just the hassle, so now trying to find good LPs worth the hassle. Usually recent stuff and electronica etc it is not worth it, but my black keys album " brothers " sounded better in vinyl, depeche mode sounded meeehhhhh.... so when we buy LP and compare them to digital version do we feel regret or wow? 

Bodger posted:

Simon,

I did have it on a proper Fraim and on the top shelf. I added the hi-line also and was quite impressed with that right out of the box. It really brought things together a lot. I had the XPS2 in installed by then also. For 2 years it was in large and pretty bright room so that would not have helped. It was a 2005 purchase so perhaps the model has also matured internally over the years. When I changed to CDS3 I preferred this I miss the front loading drawer though.

Dave

 

Hi Dave

Interesting - and this was with your 252 as well? Ok perhaps we are all different or there are sample differences.. or we build our Fraims differently with different tension etc - I don't know. Certainly can't call it bright at all now - in fact attractively the opposite. My room is reasonably warm sounding according to room eq software so that might have something to do with it as well.

What I do know is when I had my CDX2 on a non Fraim stand with a 202 as well as non Naim I did find it bright sometimes on its own and back then when I had my CDX2 wired in - I wanted to use an  XPS2 to tame it. Now whether that was the stand or the preamp i don't know.

I will agree the resolution of the CDX2 is limited compared to other high end devices - the ability to listen in to the music compared to other devices like the NDS or Hugo is limited - but for me that is not what the CDX2 is about  - which is why I have multiple sources... nothing to do with media types - but to do with presentation.

Simon

Simon, I can't remember which came first, the 252 or the CDS3. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the CDX2, I did buy it and at the time time it was streets ahead of my prior gear. I did prefer the presentation with the PSU but got this later due to lack of funds. I just preferred the S over the X. CDS3/252/300 was a great combo.

Dave

Apologies to Adam for the hijack of his thread BTW.