Guidance / What differences have you found / 250DR vs 300DR

My only experience of the 300DR was at a dealer demo, in an unlikely combination with 272 (bare) and Kudos X2 speakers. The extra grip the 300 had over the small speakers was spectacular, but it also turned the system into a bit of a beast compared to the 250DR. Not something I could have lived with long term, but a great fun system for loud parties. One interpretation of this might be that the amp was exposing the limitations of the source: something that might be mitigated by adding a PSU to it.

I have the 300dr connected to a superuniti. It plays miles better at low volume than the SU did on its own, low volume listening is great with it.

. I didn't compare it to the 250dr though. 

i love my 250dr. Its a huge upgrade on the 250 (same box non DR) so is kindof the pinnacle of that era. 

The 300DR is one of the greatest power amps on sale anywhere. It would last you the rest of your lifetime

The300 is richer and more detailed. It is the "better" amp.  

From my experience of the 'old' 250.2 and 300, the 300 is better in every way. Assuming that the DR impact on the 300 is as great as on the 250, the new 300 will be really something. The only thing I'd question is how good the Israeli power supply really is, and whether, if this is not to be replaced, getting a 300 is really ideal. 

I think a lot of the ability to enjoy music quietly comes from the speakers, and I'm not convinced that there will be a big difference between the two amps. Certainly my 250 is fine at low volumes. 

Thank you for all the info folks.

ChrisSU, I'm not surprised at that, but it does indicate that the 300 has more musical 'drive' than the 250DR.  When combined with the X2's that are primarily designed to express musical energy the result is a little unbalanced and the 250DR a better match.  My Spendors are on the neutral/relaxed side, so the 300 sould be a good match.

Dewy, Thanks the comment on low volume is most useful, the Nait XS 2 is better than the SU for that, but not 'miles better'; it sounds as though the 300DR is notably good at low volume - see also my response to HH for more conclusions on this.

Jon, yes the "last suit you'll ever wear last amp you'll ever need" is a factor; and something with which I wholeheartedly agree.

Lindsay, that fits with the other opinions and lends weight, thanks.

HH, yes I agree about the speakers, that was one of my criteria all those years ago (but I'm not sure Noah's wooden listening room was ideal for the audition).  I also believe that the amp has a role to play and that it's the combination of amp preserving of sharp edges in the low level micro-dynamics that enables a speaker cone to respond with micron level movements - if either are flawed, the information doesn't make it into the air.

Update: s/h 300DR ordered!  I'll let you know.

Decision in three hours. Well done you. 

I used to be indecisive, but now...

it seems I'm not!  

I can't see how anyone could ever regret buying a 300dr. It's just one of those products there's nothing wrong with and you can build up a very nice system around it. 

They say source first. I say b*****ks, 300dr first

If I can have any amp in the Naim line up, it would be the 300, I prefer it's presentation to the 500, and of course the 250. I do think you need a 252 though to do it full justice.

I think along the same lines as DREWY, I would rather have the better amp and the best speakers I could afford, then worry about everything else. That approach has worked for me so far all these years.

The price for the s/h 300 recently serviced and upgraded to DR spec (by Naim) was very little more than I would have paid for a 250DR.  So assuming it's at least as good as a 250DR for micro-dynamics and at low volume; then even if a 272 + cuddly toy doesn't fully do it justice, I still recon it has to be worth a punt.  I firmly believe it'll show the 272 in the best light rather than specifically highlighting defects (unless of course you compare it to a NDS + 252/Supercap combination  ).

Incidentally the dealer is very enthusiastic about the Spendor SP2s and also about the combination, so I'm very hopeful I'll benefit in many ways (sonically at least).

300DR is a nice way to finish the upgrades in style, with a great SQ

500 territory is no go for me unless lottery or something 

Good luck Huge, I'm sure you'll have fun with the 300. Buying used, the worst that can happen is that you sell it on and try something else, but I suspect you won't want to do that. At one stage, I was quite excited by the idea of a 300, but there was no way I could make it work in a 3 box system.

if the 300 has ben serviced, DR'd and re capped it should sound effectively as good as new.. it is worth checking it has been re capped however... 

Huge I have passed on the 300 because of the space required and the need to keep the two Bundys off the floor and unstrained... but if a pre loved one came my way I am sure i could move things around   

I have only really enjoyed the 300DR amp  driving large speakers i have always found it superb  - for me the 250 and 250DR tends to match smaller speakers better, perhaps because of the slightly warmer presentation and smaller footprint..

Huge,

Congratulations on scoring a 300DR at a good price.  You will never regret that.  Now, about the poo bear...  There were two upgrades I have made in which one of the noticeable improvements was an ability to sound better at low volume:  upgrading my 250 to 250DR, and replacing my XPS (on my DAC) with a 555PSDR.  I am amazed at how good music can sound, played at surprisimgly low volume.

You are going to be one happy dude!

Charlie

Huge

Congratulations on the 300dr you won't regret it it for one moment I'm sure as it is a truly superb amp. I moved from a 250dr to the 300dr six months ago and could not be happier. Like you I have a 272 but run mine with xpsdr. The added detail and refinement along with sheer power and control is a delight. Listening at lower volume levels is something the 300dr does so well.

On a side note my 300dr sounded wonderful out the box but took around 3 months possibly a little longer to fully blossom, enjoy the journey and keep us posted.

Good listening 

Well done Huge - a very good amp indeed!

Good move, Huge. I'm sure you won't regret getting a 300DR. Although I had a 300DR on loan at home in my system for about 10 days, in truth the in-store demo was sufficient for the decision to be made. In a system very similar to mine I heard a 250DR against my then 250.2. It was a nice improvement (though the 250DR has a different characteristic to the 250.2). The 300DR was then put in the system and the improvement was immediate and large.  

You're going to have fun.

Mike

The Strat (Fender) posted:

The300 is richer and more detailed. It is the "better" amp.  

Although I agree that the NAP300DR/300PS is more detiled and simply better, richer is not a word I would have used.

But then again what does richer actually mean? Strong, deep, full, intense, vivid, brilliant, warm, vibrant, graphic? Yes I suppose the 300 is most of those 

I upgraded from a 250-2 to a 300 DR last December... The 250-2 was a very good amp, but the 300 DR is another league altogether. My listening space is smallish and most of my listening is done at low to moderate volume. In my experience the 300 shines in this environment. 

Chris Dolan posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

The300 is richer and more detailed. It is the "better" amp.  

Although I agree that the NAP300DR/300PS is more detiled and simply better, richer is not a word I would have used.

But then again what does richer actually mean? Strong, deep, full, intense, vivid, brilliant, warm, vibrant, graphic? Yes I suppose the 300 is most of those 

I think that's what I meant!

Chris Dolan posted:

But then again what does richer actually mean? Strong, deep, full, intense, vivid, brilliant, warm, vibrant, graphic? Yes I suppose the 300 is most of those 

With the exception of 'graphic' we could so easily be talking of a Java blend or of the Gironde's left bank here 

C.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

if the 300 has ben serviced, DR'd and re capped it should sound effectively as good as new.. it is worth checking it has been re capped however... 

Huge I have passed on the 300 because of the space required and the need to keep the two Bundys off the floor and unstrained... but if a pre loved one came my way I am sure i could move things around   

I have only really enjoyed the 300DR amp  driving large speakers i have always found it superb  - for me the 250 and 250DR tends to match smaller speakers better, perhaps because of the slightly warmer presentation and smaller footprint..

Hi Simon, yes, NAP 300, DRed and full service including re-cap all for £4k.  I'm also going to have to move things round, and change my speaker cables as the capacitance on the current ones is OK for an integrated, but rather too high for a Classic NAP.  Probably not enough to cause damage, but too high for optimal sound.  I should get the cables and bits tomorrow for installation over the weekend.

OK the update...

DNM Resolution speaker cable installed then 300(DR'd) installed.

The speaker cable (when used with the XS 2) gave a quite noticeable improvement to the amount of detail audible, and a small but definite improvement to the 'attack' in the music.

Then the 300(DR'd).  Initially there was a dramatic improvement in the sense of 'solidity' in the sound and a considerable improvement in the detail and 'attack'.  After a few hours (~10) playing all these have shown further increases and there have also been considerable improvements to instrumental timbres, readability of words in vocals and a quite astonishing increase in the way the whole envelope sound of each note is presented.  This all makes for a far more convincing and enjoyable presentation of music.  So many things just draw my attention into the music and for the time the rest of the world just disappears.

One useful side effect is that I can now easily listen 3dB below the previous level and get the same or more enjoyment form the music; I can also listen at 3dB above the previous level for the same level of fatigue - so it's a win-win situation.  I can find no area where the XS 2 power amp betters the 300(DR), and the overall musicality is a great improvement - a real WOW system.  So it's all good here!

Many thanks for everyone's advice.

One thing to note is that these gains were obtained when driving speakers that are a very easy load (Spendor SP2s, min 6.3Ω, no high phase margins, an easy load even for a Nait 5i), so users with more difficult speakers will see even greater gains.

Huge posted:

Update: s/h 300DR ordered!  I'll let you know.

Well done. Congrats!  

Now think about that power supply that's on the 272 ;-)