Guidance / What differences have you found / 250DR vs 300DR

Posted by: Huge on 13 December 2016

I'm looking into the possibilities of upgrading my poweramp, and a new 250DR or s/h 300 with DR upgrade are both possible.

The intent is to get more clarity to the system along with better musical insight and cleaner timing (i.e. a little bit more PRaT). However the most important thing is to deliver good sound at lower listening volumes (mostly 70dB to 80 dB average signal), and here I have no information on the relative merits of the two amplifiers.

I'm currently running the poweramp section of a Nait XS 2 into a very easy load (Spendor SP2s, 8Ωnominal 6.8Ω minimum, 88dB/2.83V), so either will be a big upgrade anyway. Source is a NAC-N 272, powered by a cuddly toy XPS. Room is 4.25 x 3.6m and acoustically treated for bass resonances. A B&W ASW610XP sub handles the lower bass, so most improvements to the bass won't be significant for me.

Please ask if I've missed any details you consider relevant.

If anyone has a direct experience comparing these two at lower volumes, I'd very much appreciate your insights.

Posted on: 04 January 2017 by Huge

I do think about it - I think it works very well!

(But maybe a secondhand 555 PS DR will turn up sometime.)

Posted on: 04 January 2017 by DrPo

Huge, congratulations on your new amp! I was intrigued by your post as I had last week on home loan a 282 HiCap 250 (non DR) combination (even created a thread as in the beginning I had issues powering up the 250 - ). I was extremely happy with the low level detail against my current integrated but what I did notice was that I had to crank the volume up above 85db (at 2.7m distance) to enjoy these details and this was the only shortcoming - it was like if i needed a "loudness" button.

My "conclusion" was that I have to check the better preamp (252) rather than focus on the power amp (my reasoning was: the macro dynamics and transients of the 250 on my 89db 3Ω min impedance speakers were fantastic so it was not the power amp I should be looking at).

Your post indicates that the more powerful power amp improves lower level listening which is very interesting

Posted on: 04 January 2017 by Bart

Huge posted:
I do think about it - I think it works very well!
(But maybe a secondhand 555 PS DR will turn up sometime.)

It would be a fun home demo, and if you could find a 555 DR at the right price probably a 'no brainer?' I got lucky with my 555 - it was pre-DR, but new enough that it qualified for the Naim subsidy when DR was first announced. Purchase price + subsidized DR upgrade equalled great value.

Posted on: 04 January 2017 by ChrisSU

DrPo posted:
Huge, congratulations on your new amp! I was intrigued by your post as I had last week on home loan a 282 HiCap 250 (non DR) combination (even created a thread as in the beginning I had issues powering up the 250 - ). I was extremely happy with the low level detail against my current integrated but what I did notice was that I had to crank the volume up above 85db (at 2.7m distance) to enjoy these details and this was the only shortcoming - it was like if i needed a "loudness" button.
My "conclusion" was that I have to check the better preamp (252) rather than focus on the power amp (my reasoning was: the macro dynamics and transients of the 250 on my 89db 3Ω min impedance speakers were fantastic so it was not the power amp I should be looking at).
Your post indicates that the more powerful power amp improves lower level listening which is very interesting

Nait XS to 300DR is one hell of a big jump up the ladder, and I'd be surprised if it didn't improve everything (except for possibly exposing any weaknesses further up the chain.) Weather it makes sense with whatever preamp you're planning on using is another matter, and I think I'd want to do plenty of careful listening to make sure I wasn't heading into mullet territory before getting a 300.

Posted on: 04 January 2017 by Huge

ChrisSU posted:
Nait XS to 300DR is one hell of a big jump up the ladder, and I'd be surprised if it didn't improve everything (except for possibly exposing any weaknesses further up the chain.) Weather it makes sense with whatever preamp you're planning on using is another matter, and I think I'd want to do plenty of careful listening to make sure I wasn't heading into mullet territory before getting a 300.

It couldn't be a mullet, more a camel! However the source / pre is a NAC-N 272 with a cuddly toy power supply; so it's up to the job with a 300(DR).

Posted on: 04 January 2017 by ChrisSU

Huge posted:
ChrisSU posted:
Nait XS to 300DR is one hell of a big jump up the ladder, and I'd be surprised if it didn't improve everything (except for possibly exposing any weaknesses further up the chain.) Weather it makes sense with whatever preamp you're planning on using is another matter, and I think I'd want to do plenty of careful listening to make sure I wasn't heading into mullet territory before getting a 300.
It couldn't be a mullet, more a camel! However the source / pre is a NAC-N 272 with a cuddly toy power supply; so it's up to the job with a 300(DR).

Camel, what sort of a fish is that!!!? I listened to 272/300DR a couple of times last year, and thought it sounded like a bit of an untamed beast....fun, though.

Posted on: 05 January 2017 by Huge

The camel is a desert fish of course - so it doesn't need watering quite so much (viz another thread on this forum!).

I agree with the 272 +300DR being a little wild, and fun; but when paired with Spendor speakers and DNM speaker cables, it makes for a balanced, even handed and highly natural system. It bounces nicely with rock & pop but the speakers ensure that it still has the composure to handle choral and chamber music with great finesse.

It's all about synergy and balance; just personally, I wouldn't want to pair a 272 / 300DR combo with Kudos or Neat speakers.