A as 440 or 432 Hz

From examples of music played in this scenario, I was more inclined to agree that the 440 versions seemed more eager to take my attention, whereas the 432 versions seemed to conceal itself and needed more attention on my part to clear its signature.   From years of being tuned into the 440 Standard I can see this as realistic and for most others the same.

A different experience - having tuned to 440 Hz all my life and playing in a standard tuning, I now find myself in a new situation.

With a new singer in a band we've decided to tune down by a semitone (so E became A#, etc,etc).  Seemingly a small difference, yet a huge one... It took my brain several weeks to adjust as my hands were instinctively going to a position on a fret-board and a sound coming out was different Spooky to start with but after a while quite natural. Amazing how quickly our brain adapts....

......   err..... ? ......  down a semitone ??    from E (41Hz) a semitone down is Eb (D#)  

Adam Zielinski posted:

A different experience - having tuned to 440 Hz all my life and playing in a standard tuning, I now find myself in a new situation.

With a new singer in a band we've decided to tune down by a semitone (so E became A#, etc,etc).  Seemingly a small difference, yet a huge one... It took my brain several weeks to adjust as my hands were instinctively going to a position on a fret-board and a sound coming out was different Spooky to start with but after a while quite natural. Amazing how quickly our brain adapts....

I'm an idiot! 

E > becomes D#

Mike-B posted:

......   err..... ? ......  down a semitone ??    from E (41Hz) a semitone down is Eb (D#)  

Thank you Mike - you see how the re-tuning confused me

Frank F posted:

Baroque tuning is A = 415 (I think this is a semitone) so maybe recordings using original instruments might be  beneficial.

Adam, perhaps the new singer might need his nuts tightening a bit??

FF

Hmmm... I can hear a 'Nutcracker' approaching

The general opinion is indeed that 415 is baroque tuning. I must say that this is a bit ignoring many local exceptions. Like time differences (in life, therefore also in music), there has been a extensive local traditions in many places to tune differently.

I've played on quite a few european organs, and it was more than once that the pitch was set on A=460 or A=466. A semitone higher.

Imagine the toccata and fugue in D - ascribed to J.S. Bach (yes - baroque) a semitone higher ... a complete different experience.

Ton Koopman used to record this toccata and fugue in D on these instruments. Personally, a transpose it on A-440 instruments by a semitone when I'm in the mood (and have time to practise).

Yes indeed, baroque A = 415Hz.    Many moons ago when I played trumpet it was something we got used to moving between the various genre,  & although 440 is the "concert" pitch (& an ISO),  it does vary.  444 is also used around Europe & with some period instruments there are other A tunings.   I've played gigs with old church organs,   one on 430 & the next night its 466, then a modern job 440.   Its not a problem for trumpet, a small slide adjustment & you don't really notice the difference.   

In 18th Century French Baroque, I do believe A=392Hz. Some CD booklets IIRC state this tuning.

Also, some believe it was the standard tuning at the time of Bach and Teleman.

Mike-B posted:

Yes indeed, baroque A = 415Hz.    Many moons ago when I played trumpet it was something we got used to moving between the various genre,  & although 440 is the "concert" pitch (& an ISO),  it does vary.  444 is also used around Europe & with some period instruments there are other A tunings.   I've played gigs with old church organs,   one on 430 & the next night its 466, then a modern job 440.   Its not a problem for trumpet, a small slide adjustment & you don't really notice the difference.   

I would defenestrate all the Naim Stuff, take the Trumpet and make music (again). Warn your neighbours twofold on this.

What do I say? Hmm. Maybe not. Is also cool and educative to listen to music ...

By the wya, my music theory teacher had an absolute hearing. He did notice the difference and was now and then completely confused / annoyed by it. I got to know the blessiings of relative hearing and the possible curse of absolute hearing.

Ardbeg10y posted:

I would defenestrate all the Naim Stuff, take the Trumpet and make music (again).

There comes a time in life when blowing trumpet becomes a challenge,  I'm happy with guitar these days & might summon up the energy to touch a few black & whites,  but hitting big band top G's,     dun that & got the T shirts      & the blubber lips.  I'll leave it to the youngsters.  

Adam Zielinski posted:

A different experience - having tuned to 440 Hz all my life and playing in a standard tuning, I now find myself in a new situation.

With a new singer in a band we've decided to tune down by a semitone (so E became A#, etc,etc).  Seemingly a small difference, yet a huge one... It took my brain several weeks to adjust as my hands were instinctively going to a position on a fret-board and a sound coming out was different Spooky to start with but after a while quite natural. Amazing how quickly our brain adapts....

Yes, I'm learning a song at the moment that is played with the guitar tuned a whole tone down (with the low "E" string a further tone down, so C). I have one of my guitars tuned to that, but sometimes also play the song on a conventionally tuned guitar. The sound is really quite different, even to my tone-deaf ears. I think I might re-string the guitar that is tuned down with heavier strings to get the tension back up a bit for tuning stability, though.

Mike-B posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

I would defenestrate all the Naim Stuff, take the Trumpet and make music (again).

There comes a time in life when blowing trumpet becomes a challenge,  I'm happy with guitar these days & might summon up the energy to touch a few black & whites,  but hitting big band top G's,     dun that & got the T shirts      & the blubber lips.  I'll leave it to the youngsters.  

I've respect to that Mike. My daughter plays the French Horn and I hardly can get a well tuned tone out of it.

Purely as an aside.  Tony Iommi and others routinely tune their guitars down a semitone.  In his case because of his finger injuries, but it does account for some of the heavy metal sound.

Very good youtube video by James Taylor on tuning an acoustic guitar. Type James Taylor tuning and it comes up as Bonus Lesson - interesting concept and he puts it across in his 'nice bloke' way.

The standard is A=440 Hz for North America and UK as far as I know.  The problem is that in various countries throughout Scandinavia through continental Europe (including Russia) they are either A=442 Hz or A=443 Hz.

My piano is tuned to A=440 Hz.  Most of the recordings that I listen to were recorded in Europe.  This is very annoying with the difference as it makes it impossible to play along.  Being out of tune for a musician is the equivalent of the nails dragged down the chalkboard.  It is painful to play A440 against A443.

No matter what it is at though when a piano is playing with anybody else in some chamber music (with violin or cello, for example) it is so satisfying to say (or mostly think to yourself) that this is A and you get to tune to my A no matter what pitch it is at.  String players hate us for this predicament.  

retuning is horrible if you have perfect pitch

i understand the need for tuning with formal instruments - but with folk instruments pitch can be quite variable - with folk flute and whistle (I play a high D) a lot is determined by the player - and other reed instruments such as accordion (I play a musette tuned piano accordion) the reeds can be offset tuned with each other to produce an attractive overtone rich musette type sound. I am not aware of any regional tuning requirements for such instruments - but I guess such instruments don't tend to play in an orchestra..... 

S

Following Simon here, I used to sing Gregorian Chant (I'm not Catholic by the way), we just took a random note where we feel it is good given a certain amplitude of the 'song' (song is wrong word here but it translates).

AndyP19 posted:

Very good youtube video by James Taylor on tuning an acoustic guitar. Type James Taylor tuning and it comes up as Bonus Lesson - interesting concept and he puts it across in his 'nice bloke' way.

I watched that and found it very interesting. Clearly intended for a player who uses a capo as he tunes every string a smidgen flat (although not by the same amount). I don't have a tuner that is precise enough, but I'd be inclined to try something like this. It would be interesting to see how/if the intonation on the guitar should be adjusted to work best with JT's approach.

Dungassin posted:

Purely as an aside.  Tony Iommi and others routinely tune their guitars down a semitone.  In his case because of his finger injuries, but it does account for some of the heavy metal sound.

In my part of the musical landscape it's normal to tune guitars a fair bit lower than that. Tuning to standard E would be quite weird, in fact, and going down to B is perfectly common.

I'd always thought that Sabbath tuned slightly lower for the sound. It'd be quite amusing if many of the metal musicians I know had spent years tuning down lower and lower in a search for heaviness when really it was just an exaggeration of how Iommi tried to cope with his plastic fingers.