Stored Music metadata and artwork

I don't think the problem is in the Naim app Roger,  more like the limitations of USB implementation.  The primary Naim connections are intended to be ethernet from a NAS with wireless iPad control point,  or wireless from the NAS via wireless 'router'  or from www streaming.   However 'high-res' (24-bit) over wireless has limitations with the higher sample rates.  With ethernet & wireless you will see metadata displayed correctly along with the art covers (assuming you've done your end correctly) .  Rovi is an add-on (maybe better called a throw-in) that might/sometimes work,  I just don't bother if it doesn't.     

Mike-B posted:

I don't think the problem is in the Naim app Roger,  more like the limitations of USB implementation.  Naim 'high-res' (24-bit) connections are normally ethernet,  or wireless (wireless has limitations with the higher 24-bit sample rates) & this will show metadata correctly with the art covers etc (assuming you've done you end correctly) .  Rovi is an add-on (maybe better called a throw-in) that might/sometimes work,  I just don't bother if it doesn't.     

Thanks Mike but I guess you are talking about playing from a UPnP server over Ethernet. Reading directly from a USB stick is reading the data directly there is no issue with playing the music. In my view, the Naim app should be sent the metadata from the playing device whether Uniti or Mu-so. It clearly is sent the album and track title so the Rovi data can be requested. It would be a simple matter to send the artwork too - this connection between Naim app and the Mu-so is still over the network of course (albeit wifi) as it is just the music file contents that are being read over USB.

As for my iRadio thread, will be off-line for a while as going out for a walk while the sun shines. 

Roger

The metadata comes from the server software rather than the thing playing the music, such as the Uniti. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

The metadata comes from the server software rather than the thing playing the music, such as the Uniti. 

Which is exactly what is not wanted if playing from a USB stick. Anyway, as I said, some of the metadata is coming from the USB stick as it appears in a page in the digital booklet.

The forthcoming Uniti Atom will apparently act as a UPnP server from a local USB drive and that device might have the processing ability and programming to extract  the image data.

Now I am going for that walk

Roger

Roger - I think you are mixing several issues into one:

1. Metadata, including artwork needs to be 'attached' to individul music tracks, grouped into albums.

2. Naim app is primarily designed as an inteface (remote control) for music being played back from a NAS via LAN to a Naim streamer. Wireless access point on the same network is also needed for Naim app to interact properly.

3. Music needs to be served via a UPnP server software which reads files from a NAS and associated metadata and presents all to a streamer and a Naim control app.

4. What is being displayed on a Naim app is essentially what a server 'tells' is available for those particular tracks.

5. The 'booklet' available via Naim app is based on a correct album identification (taken from tracks metadata) and compiled, based on the Rovi database (at least this is what I understand).

Now - to your question: if files are played back from a USB stick, we bypass an essential component of the above setup - listed in point 3 above.

Hope the above makes it a bit more clear.

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

Roger - I think you are mixing several issues into one:

1. Metadata, including artwork needs to be 'attached' to individul music tracks, grouped into albums.

2. Naim app is primarily designed as an inteface (remote control) for music being played back from a NAS via LAN to a Naim streamer. Wireless access point on the same network is also needed for Naim app to interact properly.

3. Music needs to be served via a UPnP server software which reads files from a NAS and associated metadata and presents all to a streamer and a Naim control app.

4. What is being displayed on a Naim app is essentially what a server 'tells' is available for those particular tracks.

5. The 'booklet' available via Naim app is based on a correct album identification (taken from tracks metadata) and compiled, based on the Rovi database (at least this is what I understand).

Now - to your question: if files are played back from a USB stick, we bypass an essential component of the above setup - listed in point 3 above.

Hope the above makes it a bit more clear.

Adam

 

Back from my walk, so thanks Adam. Let me respond point by point:

1. Sorry if this was not already clear from my post, but the metadata is attached to the individual files. I use kid3 for this under OSX. You can see the artwork in the screenshot

2. Naim products such as the Uniti and the Mu-so are capable of a whole lot more than playing from a UPnP server and the app is used to control all of these. I thought you could take it as read that the iPad(s) I use to run the app are on the same network as the Naim devices.

3. No. Music can also be played back from an attached USB drive or stick. That is what I am doing.

4. Only if you choose to play from a UPnP server.

5. And, without any need for a UPnP server, the track metadata is being sent to Rovi to compile the digital booklet. Here you can see the page from the booklet showing the track and album title:

But since Rovi does not know about this album (although Discogs does - see previous post) what it shows next is:

What I am saying is that the app should allow for the artwork to be picked up from the file.

But if the lengths you have to go to to include images in this forum is anything to go by, you will understand why I think that Naim are not the best at software development, at least as far as user interface design goes.

I do appreciate the time taken to reply though, I hope this helps you and others understand the issue.

Roger

Well, that's the way things are. You either accept what you are currently getting via a USB stick, or you put the music on a nas and get the full functionality.

Roger - I understand what you wrote (and actually understood what you wrote in the first place )
I was describing a 'known state' of settings which always gives a full functionality. And I understand where you diverge from it.

I think it's much easier and safer to store music on a dedicated NAS - USB sticks are more prone to failure than hard drives used in NAS.

Thanks people

It is probably my networking and security background, before retirement, that makes me unenthusiastic for the chatty and unauthenticated UPnP protocol, particularly if implemented on a NAS. The protocol implementations on these devices are often not updated.

I would just urge the several of you that have effectively shrugged your shoulders and said that's the way it is, like it or lump it, including the use of Rovi, to recognise that things could be different. One use of this forum is to let Naim know what users find are disappointing limitations.

Roger

Hi Roger -

I wasn't sure about the USB view, which sounded like my previous experience with "folder" view from UPnP servers such as Synology MediaStation and MinimServer. I didn't always get artwork, and file names (*.flac, eg) were shown rather than track titles (per metadata). In fact I rarely use USB and almost never use folder view in UPnP except for beta testing, so...

As an experiment, I copied 21 by Adele from my NAS to a USB key (re-formatted and otherwise empty) using the same folder and names and attached metadata tags. Artwork was embedded (also confirmed in kid tag editor on Mac mini).

Your experience matches mine with USB (in a Qute not a MuSo): generic icons for album and tracks, but I also see the file names for directory (Adele - 21 (2011)) and individual tracks (01 - Rolling In The Deep.flac). 

On folder view from both MediaStation and MinimServer, however, I now see nicely displayed graphics and song info (both at album/directory level and in track/file name level). So good news on improved "by folder" browsing on UPnP but no joy from the USB source.

This can and should be raised via the "Naim Support" email as a feature request with the software team, to harmonize presentation across inputs. I expect that they will be thinking about this already since the new Uniti boxes, as you say, are geared up to read from much larger attached storage repositories than what has been the norm up to now...and adding the track artwork rather than the generic "music note" graphic  to the new display screens would be de rigeur! 

Best wishes in a frustrating moment. I am in complete agreement that these devices are intended to be used with a broad spectrum of inputs, and improving one (eg UPnP or Tidal) first should be viewed as "setting the bar" for the rest! We get radio station artwork for Internet Radio, for example, so why not from USB? I hope the sounds are more pleasing than the visuals.

Regards alan

Many thanks Alan, much aapreciated