Ok so I tried a 252 and I'm not sure what to make of it.

How were they (252 and SC) installed relative to your NAP and who did it?

Or put another way, would you be able to look Naim's mechanical and electrical engineers in the eye, confident they would be happy with the set-up?!

You say it's not excited you, can you be more specific?

Chris

Maybe the 252's presentation doesn't work for you, Drewy. It didn't for me and I tried it twice at home, each time for a couple of weeks.  I found my 282 (with SC) less refined and detailed but just so much more exciting.  I ran my 282 with SCDR and 300DR for a while and found it an excellent combination. Perhaps you should try a 282 in your system to see if its presentation pushes you buttons. Some don't like it but you won't know until you try.

I agree the step to a 552 is steep, and is a big step up in performance from 282/252. I took that step but remain a big fan of the 282.

Mike 

I installed it myself. I did have a play around with it on the single Fraim stack. Power supplies were lowest, from the bottom 300ps, Supercap and then 555ps. The others were in the same order as their power supplies above. As I said I did play around with things to make sure it was good as it could be and there was a nice improvement particularly in the bass resulting in the soundstage opening up but it just didn't do enough for me. 

Maybe im expecting too much and only by trying other preamps will I really be able to put in into perspective.

Drewy posted:

I installed it myself. I did have a play around with it on the single Fraim stack. Power supplies were lowest, from the bottom 300ps, Supercap and then 555ps. The others were in the same order as their power supplies above.

I think most would expect brain and brawn stacks at this level.

C.

MDS posted:

Maybe the 252's presentation doesn't work for you, Drewy. It didn't for me and I tried it twice at home, each time for a couple of weeks.  I found my 282 (with SC) less refined and detailed but just so much more exciting.  I ran my 282 with SCDR and 300DR for a while and found it an excellent combination. Perhaps you should try a 282 in your system to see if its presentation pushes you buttons. Some don't like it but you won't know until you try.

I agree the step to a 552 is steep, and is a big step up in performance from 282/252. I took that step but remain a big fan of the 282.

Mike 

Thanks for the reply. You obviously can see where I'm coming from. 

I once had an 82 and Supercap, with a CDS3. I swapped to a 252 but didn't really get along with it. It was very nice, but seemed somehow restrained. I quickly sold it and got a 552, which was wonderful. Others love the 252 though. These are all expensive purchases and it's important to get it right. 

As you know, a single stack isn't optimal with the gear you're trying. It really needs 'brain' and 'brawn' stacks to get the best performance.  That said, I would expect you to be able to hear enough of a performance lift from trying a 252/SC or 282/SC over your Superuniti to know whether the investment is worthwhile.    

Do a search on here, there are lots of conflicting opinions on this subject, the 252 seems to divide opinion more than any of the other preamp in the classic range.

Im running virtually the same with just different speakers and I just love it.

It is very sensitive to set up so maybe get the dealer to check that ?

Is it a new one or has the amp or power supply yet to run in ?

Properly set up and run in it should trounce the superuniti preamp section.

One final thing, I moved up from a 152/155XS system first running the 252 with the 155 power amp before adding a 300 then 300DR. At first, I wasn't sure what difference the 252 was making but after a period of listening the "penny dropped" and I loved what it was doing so, maybe a bit of time is needed.

If after all the above it's still not for you, move on, try the 282 or 552 and see if you prefer either of those. If your end game is the 552 and you can afford it, you may be as well just going straight there and missing the 252 all together.

Christopher_M posted:

Drewy posted:

I installed it myself. I did have a play around with it on the single Fraim stack. Power supplies were lowest, from the bottom 300ps, Supercap and then 555ps. The others were in the same order as their power supplies above.

I think most would expect brain and brawn stacks at this level.

C.

Maybe but not in my room. This is my lounge dining room and it has to fit in with other items of furniture and meet the approval of you know who.

I've heard my brother-in-law's 252/SC a few times; I won't discuss dynamics, treble or bass, or the sort; but I was struck immediately by a feeling of 'time coherence', of 'flow' I had not experienced before, but recognised at once. To me, the 252 is essentially that.

M

Yes the 252 is fussy to setup with cable dressing and support... the SuperCap obviously is important, is it new or has it been recapped if old?

But as said above it might not be your cup of tea.. it's a very neutral and insightful preamp, some might prefer the slightly larger than life presentation of the 282.

When set up right I think it's hard to beat.. so much so I went and bought one... but yes it took a little bit of effort to get it sounding like it does now...  my SuperCapDR I bought used albeit only a couple of years old.

Simon

Hi,

A search on here will reveal much discussion about the virtues of the 252 and 282. Personally i love the sound of the 252 even thought I've made a decision to stay with the 282.  But have no doubt about the ability of the 282 to stand alongside the NDS mine partners a CDS3 and it's superb.  Perhaps if you  tried the 282 you'd at least get the difference between the 2. 

The 552?  Don't take me there - if I could I would!!

Good luck,

Lindsay

If the comparison is between using an SU as a dedicated pre vs a 252 (into a 300 DR), and your finding is in favour of the Superuniti, my thinking is that something is off. Either of the 282 or 252 should be a marked improvement... granted which you prefer of those two is down to taste.

I'd give the 282 a shot... unless you have the deep pockets for a 552.

Massimo Bertola posted:

I've heard my brother-in-law's 252/SC a few times; I won't discuss dynamics, treble or bass, or the sort; but I was struck immediately by a feeling of 'time coherence', of 'flow' I had not experienced before, but recognised at once. To me, the 252 is essentially that.

M

Good description, Massimo. I thought the 252 timed very well but it seemed to do so as if sitting in a nice comfy armchair, which is fine if the music is is relaxing.   When it came to rock music I wanted it to jump out of the armchair and cause me to jump out of mine. It didn't so I didn't.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I once had an 82 and Supercap, with a CDS3. I swapped to a 252 but didn't really get along with it. It was very nice, but seemed somehow restrained. I quickly sold it and got a 552, which was wonderful. Others love the 252 though. These are all expensive purchases and it's important to get it right. 

Totally agree. A few years ago I would have gone for the 252 straight away but I've grown up a lot since then. I promised myself a real Naim system since I was 17 years old and am determined not to let this final piece of the jigsaw lead to disappointment. 

My dealer has offered to get a 552 to demo in their room alongside the very same 252 to see the difference in real terms before letting me try the 552 at home if I then wish.

Drewy posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I once had an 82 and Supercap, with a CDS3. I swapped to a 252 but didn't really get along with it. It was very nice, but seemed somehow restrained. I quickly sold it and got a 552, which was wonderful. Others love the 252 though. These are all expensive purchases and it's important to get it right. 

My dealer has offered to get a 552 to demo in their room alongside the very same 252 to see the difference in real terms before letting me try the 552 at home if I then wish.

My advice would be don't do it unless you're really prepared to pay for a 552. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Yes the 252 is fussy to setup with cable dressing and support... the SuperCap obviously is important, is it new or has it been recapped if old?

But as said above it might not be your cup of tea.. it's a very neutral and insightful preamp, some might prefer the slightly larger than life presentation of the 282.

When set up right I think it's hard to beat.. so much so I went and bought one... but yes it took a little bit of effort to get it sounding like it does now...  my SuperCapDR I bought used albeit only a couple of years old.

Simon

Both supercap and 252 are 2015 models so I assume there quite well run in and I did give it some welly over the last week. 

Personally I don't think it's for me but then again I can't really say as I've not compared it to the other two options. I might demo the others and decide the 252 is better than it seems to my ears.

What is the 555ps powering, can it go below the 252?

I always prefered my 282 below the CDX2 but the 552 needed to go above it, probably to get away from the 500ps which was quite high in the adjacent stack to keep the burndies off the deck.

Play around with plug order too. I always ended up from power in, CDps,(superline ps if I used one), pre ps, power, the rest. This isn't everyones preference.

This sort of tweakery is your fate if you scale the higher end of the Naim range.

Zipperheadbanjo posted:

If the comparison is between using an SU as a dedicated pre vs a 252 (into a 300 DR), and your finding is in favour of the Superuniti, my thinking is that something is off. Either of the 282 or 252 should be a marked improvement... granted which you prefer of those two is down to taste.

I'd give the 282 a shot... unless you have the deep pockets for a 552.

 

Sorry I might have misled you with my initial post. I'm not saying the SU is preferred. I'd take the 252 over just the SU any day but I just don't think I want to pay 10k for a preamp that I'm not sure about. 

Drewy,

At this level of investment your dealer should be making house calls.  It could be that you were not hearing the 252 at its best, and your dealer should be able to help with setup - maybe he could loan some extra Fraim?

What music were you using?  Can you describe what is missing from the music?

Charlie

CharlieP posted:

Drewy,

At this level of investment your dealer should be making house calls.  It could be that you were not hearing the 252 at its best, and your dealer should be able to help with setup - maybe he could loan some extra Fraim?

What music were you using?  Can you describe what is missing from the music?

Charlie

Hi Charlie. My dealer is fine, I'm my opinion there is no magic way of setting these things up. It's common sense stuff and I've spent some time this week moving things around, playing with Burndies etc so I think I've got it as good as I can reasonably expect. In fact I'd like to fall in love with it before resorting to endless tweaking. 

I trust my dealer to help me do the right thing and this is why I'm prepared to spend what I need to rather than just saying bollocks to it and buying a used 552 on a whim.

The 252 is quite neutral and requires a very good setup and a long warmup to show it's qualities. Only people who have had it a bit longer and let it settle in the full qualities show up. While it's not in the same league as a 552 it should bring a lot of joy. But if you consider a 282 than I would suggest to give it a bit longer. If a 552 is possible, just let yourself be convinced by king 552.....

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Yes the 252 is fussy to setup with cable dressing and support... the SuperCap obviously is important, is it new or has it been recapped if old?

But as said above it might not be your cup of tea.. it's a very neutral and insightful preamp, some might prefer the slightly larger than life presentation of the 282.

When set up right I think it's hard to beat.. so much so I went and bought one... but yes it took a little bit of effort to get it sounding like it does now...  my SuperCapDR I bought used albeit only a couple of years old.

Simon

Simon,  I couldn't agree more after hearing the 252 against the 282 I did end up purchasing the 252 as I personally preferred the presentation of the 252 in the system as purchased.

Correct installation and setup of the 252 and Supercap is essential to get the best out of the 252. I was quite surprised at the time and effort the dealer took when installing the new kit particularly with cable dressing to ensure that everything sounded as it should.

Ok so I've just had chance to sit down and listen to my existing and slightly odd NDS, SU and 300DR arrangement and have bunged on a bit of Madonna's immaculate collection cd rip (it was played briefly yesterday) and it sounds so restricted (as it should be) compared to the system with the 252 in place of the SU. All of a sudden the 252 seems great to my ears. Maybe I didn't appreciate it when it was there but there must be a reason for that.

I'm going to be seeing a bit more of my dealer before I'm done with this episode. I never expected choosing a preamp was going to be that difficult, every other naim item I have has been a no brainer 

Perhaps it's my taste in music but I've always been happy with my 252/Supercap DR. I progressed from a 202 and 282 and for me the 252 was a real improvement. It's all down to the sum of the parts at the end of the day and in my system it clearly works. Recently the addition of a SL loom made the biggest single difference even with my Ovator 600s - Marmite effects cancelled out perhaps?!

One can over-analyse such things