Ok so I tried a 252 and I'm not sure what to make of it.

Wow, it has pretty well all been said. As a 202, 282 and now a 252 owner I would however make a couple of observations.

It is a little concerning that there was no immediate recognition of the 252's capabilities when the OP first heard it. Having said that it does take time to settle in and it is very sensitive to set-up, although I acknowledge the OP has spent time on that. One thing I have noticed with the 252 is that it is very responsive to tweaks and upgrades in other parts of the system e.g. I have had significant uplifts in SQ from cable upgrading, particularly SuperLumina. This IMO is testament to the neutral, revealing and transparent nature of the 252.

As has been mentioned, there have been may comparisons between the 282 and 252, indeed I posted on the subject (at length!) sometime ago when I observed the 'grown up' nature of the 252 and likened the 282's exuberant character to an excited puppy, keen to make friends. Having owned both pre amps, I guess I 'grew out' of the 282 and 'grew in to' the 252. It was a process of gradually becoming a little less 'impressed' with the 282's…..err….impressiveness (although I do acknowledge this kind of necessary for rock) and becoming seduced by the musicality (sorry there's that meaningless adjective again but I can't think of any other one-word descriptor) of the 252. It is subtle, effortless, and yes, grown up.

But the OP may well prefer the 282. I loved it when I owned one, it is just that the puppy eventually had to go. It became too boisterous. One thing is for sure, the 282 (with a SuperCapDR in my case) is a perfectly fine partner for both the NDX and NDS. The 252 however seems to extract more from the NDS than the 282 did.

Anyway, I am not sure if any of this is at all helpful to the OP. All I would say is Drewy, I hope you recover from the accident quickly, enjoy your New Year's celebrations, take your time over the pre amp decision and enjoy the decision making process.

Nigel, I like your description about the puppy, I also find the 252 can be bad, mean and exuberant when you feed it the right material... punk, heavy blues, heavy metal sound superb .. that is the impressive bit. I found my 282 was tending to be exuberant even when the material wasn't which ultimately had me looking for a better preamp.. or at least a preamp that was more honest and transparent.

I felt my CDX2 and 282 were never a great match.. somehow the 282 drew attention to the shortcomings in the CDX2, the 252 somehow lets the musical enjoyment trump those shortcomings, and makes them less noticeable...I fell in love again with my CDX2 when I upgraded from my 282 to 252.

But if your speakers or sources are slightly on the 'flat' side of neutral then the 282 can be great to spice them up and in that way the 282 is very good indeed.

Simon

DrMark posted:

'I have also owned a SuperUniti, and sold it scarcely a week later. It's the single, only piece of Naim gear I really regret having bought. "

Ahem...DVD5?

Ciao Mark,

the DVD5 gave me some trouble, but it was a great DVD player and I loved the idea of it. I don't regret having bought it, only it couldn't last. But the SU was the least Naim sounding machine I've had. To me, it's the exact opposite of the UnitiLite, a little, energetic, cheeky, cheerful thing I like a lot.

Mornings guys. 

Thanks for all the great replies. Sat here on a train to London I can't believe my 'old' system sounded so dead last night. I'm even wondering if I've got it set up badly. All this considering the confused thoughts on the 252.  A few days away might be what I need. There's no rush to do anything, it's only a hifi system after all. 

I think I will re visit the 252 maybe at my dealer's with the 552 also. It's the 252 I really wanted to have so I'm not giving up on it yet. I try and ignore forum comments on various products and make my own judgements on things which is why I only started this thread after trying the 252 out and kind of experiencing for myself its possibly misleading characteristics    

I will keep you all informed on what happens. 

Sounds like you really want a second hand/ex-demonstration 552. I may go down that route one day when funds permit. Until then the 252 will do just fine!

Used 552 sounds like the best potential solution. Subject to audition. You'll never know until you hear it for yourself.

Massimo Bertola posted:

DrMark posted:

'I have also owned a SuperUniti, and sold it scarcely a week later. It's the single, only piece of Naim gear I really regret having bought. "

Ahem...DVD5?

Ciao Mark,

the DVD5 gave me some trouble, but it was a great DVD player and I loved the idea of it. I don't regret having bought it, only it couldn't last. But the SU was the least Naim sounding machine I've had. To me, it's the exact opposite of the UnitiLite, a little, energetic, cheeky, cheerful thing I like a lot.

Va bene - adesso capisco.

What's the latest?

C.

OK I get it now

Hungryhalibut posted:

While things do improve and settle down, it should be possible to tell the difference straight away. It took literally ten seconds to hear how much of a world away the 552 is to the 252. If after a few days you are not entirely convinced it's unlikely you ever will be. It's easier to believe that something is better just because everyone tells you it is. I'm increasingly  convinced that upgrading without going anywhere near the Forum, and making your own uninfluenced decisions, is the best way to get the right decision. Those who love the 252 tell you it's the best, those who think the 282 is better tell you that there is no point getting the the 252, and then there are those who love the 552 saying that you should go for it whether you can afford it or not. I've owned two 252s and didn't really like it either time. The 552 is wonderful, but it costs TWENTY THOUSAND POUNDS! Is it worth it? Will it make your life that much better? Does this make sense? Probably not. 

Just Beautiful HH, Happy New Year!

Agreed 100%

Sorry guys, no further news as yet.

I'll probably have a call of my dealer soon. We agreed we'd be in touch in the new year. I think the idea is to get hold of a 552 off Naim to demo in in my dealer's demo room back to back with a 252 (both nicely warmed up of course) and then maybe letting me take the 552 for home demo. My dealer does not have a 552 as the're isn't a lot of people in south Devon crazy enough to buy one.

In the meantime I haven't had had time yet to re-dress the cabling on my current NDS, 555PS, 300DR, SU system to finally convince myself the reason my system doesn't sound so good now is simply because the 252 was a big improvement. 

Well ive hobbled around London all weekend which made my left hip ache and given me a bad back. Now I'm back to work doing easy stuff but the road rash is a nightmare to heal. It either sticks to the dressing (or my pants if I brave it with no dressing). I'm going to have a really gentle pedal on the turbo trainer in a bit to get some movement going on. 

I will be sure to keep you all informed on any developments.

If you can get an SU sounding as good as your 252 with cable dressing alone, you will have a long line of people wanting to know your cable dressing secrets!

Zipperheadbanjo posted:

If you can get an SU sounding as good as your 252 with cable dressing alone, you will have a long line of people wanting to know your cable dressing secrets!

You honestly think I reckon my SU will rival the 252 as a preamp? Give us a bit of credit mate

Drewy posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I once had an 82 and Supercap, with a CDS3. I swapped to a 252 but didn't really get along with it. It was very nice, but seemed somehow restrained. I quickly sold it and got a 552, which was wonderful. Others love the 252 though. These are all expensive purchases and it's important to get it right. 

Totally agree. A few years ago I would have gone for the 252 straight away but I've grown up a lot since then. I promised myself a real Naim system since I was 17 years old and am determined not to let this final piece of the jigsaw lead to disappointment. 

My dealer has offered to get a 552 to demo in their room alongside the very same 252 to see the difference in real terms before letting me try the 552 at home if I then wish.

But you do have a "real Naim system".....Maybe the 252 doesn't suit your ears??!!

Maybe try different speakers, I've heard that Ovators can be "difficult"

Roadie Simon posted:

Drewy posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I once had an 82 and Supercap, with a CDS3. I swapped to a 252 but didn't really get along with it. It was very nice, but seemed somehow restrained. I quickly sold it and got a 552, which was wonderful. Others love the 252 though. These are all expensive purchases and it's important to get it right. 

Totally agree. A few years ago I would have gone for the 252 straight away but I've grown up a lot since then. I promised myself a real Naim system since I was 17 years old and am determined not to let this final piece of the jigsaw lead to disappointment. 

My dealer has offered to get a 552 to demo in their room alongside the very same 252 to see the difference in real terms before letting me try the 552 at home if I then wish.

But you do have a "real Naim system".....Maybe the 252 doesn't suit your ears??!!

Maybe try different speakers, I've heard that Ovators can be "difficult"

The 252 isn't the only preamp Naim make. As said already I will be auditioning others. I have also already said that after plugging my existing system back in the 252 is a lot better than I realised. My concern is that I didn't notice it as much when I was actually using it. I wish it had more of an impact on me from the word go for over 10k worth of gear.

You've "heard" Ovators can be difficult? Have you heard them yourself with decent amplification (nap250 upwards)? I don't agree they're difficult at all and they're my favourite Naim item followed by my 300dr. They're staying.

I don't quite understand these discussions of preamp without regard to the source.

I mean 282 has been described as "exubertant" with CDX2, but 252 with this source is more neutral.

I wonder what would be the outcome with a more neutral source like a Chord Hugo TT with a 282 vs 252?

FWIW I have compared Hugo with 552 and 282, I don't find 282 to be exuberant, but I myself do find Naim source to be exubertant. Apologies to those who own Naim sources. 

I recently tried a coldplay song "a message". On Hugo the guitar sounds about right to my ears musically, but on UQ as a source into my 282, yes there was an energy in the guitar, which didn't really sound right to my ears.  

Hence my question. I did plan to get the Vinyl to understand what the song really sounds like, but then the phono stage may or may not have a "naim" voicing. 

I do find Hugo "version" of songs to more closely match Vinyl.

Also, what I did find is that 552 is able to extract a lot more finer detail compared to 282 due to lower noise floor.

Drewy posted:

You've "heard" Ovators can be difficult? Have you heard them yourself with decent amplification (nap250 upwards)? I don't agree they're difficult at all and they're my favourite Naim item followed by my 300dr. They're staying.

 

You've quite rightly committed a lot of time to a home demonstration of the 252 - if I were you in due course I would suggest (only suggest) you demonstrate some different speakers.

I couldn't agree more with Drewy. I use a 252/Supercap DR, NAP300DR to drive my passive 600s and couldn't be happier. I've lived with this combo for a while now and listen to music every day. I have no immediate plans to upgrade beyond my recent SL loom - certainly without paying silly money and going for a SH pair of 800s-  but then I'd probably be looking at a 552 and 500DR combo to do the speakers justice which will most probably result in divorce

One things for sure. Putting an NDS through a Superuniti is a massive waste of money

(it's a tongue in cheek comment guys so don't disown me)

I've just been playing with figures (retail prices of course).

i can buy a 252/supercap and I full S/L loom inc 5m speaker cables and it would cost me just £800 less than buying just a 552 instead. 

If I could afford it I know what I'd do

Interesting Drewy.

Several components in your set have what I would describe as a 'safe' sonic signature. The 252 also falls into this category for me. Too much safety can make Jack a dull boy.

As ever; a good dealer should be able to let you try the options at home and steer you in the direction of musical nirvana. My simple advice? Don't buy anything unless it blows your skirt up.

Good luck.

John.

J.N. posted:

Interesting Drewy.

Several components in your set have what I would describe as a 'safe' sonic signature. The 252 also falls into this category for me. Too much safety can make Jack a dull boy.

As ever; a good dealer should be able to let you try the options at home and steer you in the direction of musical nirvana. My simple advice? Don't buy anything unless it blows your skirt up.

Good luck.

John.

Thanks John. Good advice.  

Drewy posted:

J.N. posted:

Interesting Drewy.

Several components in your set have what I would describe as a 'safe' sonic signature. The 252 also falls into this category for me. Too much safety can make Jack a dull boy.

As ever; a good dealer should be able to let you try the options at home and steer you in the direction of musical nirvana. My simple advice? Don't buy anything unless it blows your skirt up.

Good luck.

John.

Thanks John. Good advice.  

Well maybe.

Having your skirt constantly blown up can get tiresome. What I am trying to say is that an initially 'impressive' component can become overbearing. I found this to be the case to some extent with the 282 fed from a NDS, whereas the 252 fed from the same source is more mature, insightful and a more relaxing listen. And by that I don't mean boring. The 252 can kick a*s when the music requires it, but only when the music requires it. Long term listening satisfaction will always trump short term 'impressiveness' IMHO.

I do agree however there should be a degree of wow on the initial listening sessions. If not, then that system is not likely to impress long term. Note I refer to the entire system rather than point the finger at the component in question.

The OP does appear to be carrying out thourough listening tests so is likely to get to the bottom of the slight feeling of disappointment with the 252, or walk away if he doesn't. Either way, the time taken to listen at length in different environments will avoid a mistake.

Good luck and keep us informed.