Ok so I tried a 252 and I'm not sure what to make of it.

MDS posted:

I suspect the 282 and 252 camps would, if they heard back-to-back comparisons, unite on the conclusion that the 552 put both pre-amps in the shade.   

Completely agree 

Chris Dolan posted:

MDS posted:

I suspect the 282 and 252 camps would, if they heard back-to-back comparisons, unite on the conclusion that the 552 put both pre-amps in the shade.   

Completely agree 

At 20k I would be surprised if it didn't..... 

Okay.  I've owned a 282 for a number of years and with whatever other components it has always made the richest sweetest music.   I've heard a 252 on a couple of occasions  - it's an improvement over the 282 - end of.  

And I couldn't agree more. I went from a 202 to a 282 to a 252/Spercap DR and love where I am. I listen to classical, don't head bang, foot tap or listen at ridiculous volumes or over-analyse the heck out of things and am happy with what I have. The 552 would be nice but there are other things in life more important.

MDS posted:

Pcd posted:

I like Mary Black as well been listening to her for years.

Glad to hear it, PCD, and having said I preferred the 282 over the 252 on rock music, I must say that for Mary Black etc I preferred the 252 over the 282.   

MRS, good news Mary Black has just turned up sounding as good as ever.

Having owned a 202,282 turned down a 552 and currently own a 252 I don't quite get the 252 not doing rock - It does it superbly well - for me  better than the 282 and significantly better than the 202  it just sounds so much more engaging and musical - so I don't get this excitement thing that some people don't get with the 252 - perhaps its down to system synergy.

The are two things that became very black and white for me between the 282 and 252

1. the native CDX2 sounded uncouth on my 282 HiCaprDR / SuperCapDR - on the 252DR is just sounds musical... can't explain it - but it is very different - and since i got my 252 my CDX2 gets a lot of use - rock and heavy blues have never sounded better - the excitement and passion and sheer energy oozes from the 252 and you're are hard pushed to sit still !

2. Choral music recorded in cathedrals simply sounds stunning with my 252 - yes the Hugo has a part to play here - but the feel and character of the cathedral- and they are all different - is very apparent with the 252.  I am not up to identifying the cathedral yet from the recording  but I can certainly appreciate it

I would say choral and heavy blues/punk/heavy rock are probably the 252 strongest cards - both really benefit from neutrality and honesty so as not to sugar coat. BTW I use Hugo and ATC speakers which probably also accounts for my lack of preference for sugar coating. Yes the 552 give me more of that 3D feel but if i am honest for my tastes and my listening room that is less important for me - which is probably why I haven't been overly drawn to it  - but I can't understand for others that being important - and fair enough

 All the rest has been said before such as greater transparency, more immersive - blah blah blah

S

when i read threads like this, i am always aware of how difficult it is to separate personal preferences from some other issue -- for example, a more revealing pre-amp highlighting a weakness elsewhere in the system. i had an issue with 252 not sounding any good when i owned it. after a lot of to- and fro-, it turned out to be a mains problem. but i guess its 'safer'/easier to just fall back on personal preferences as the whole thing is so subjective anyhow...

enjoy

ken

ken c posted:

when i read threads like this, i am always aware of how difficult it is to separate personal preferences from some other issue -- for example, a more revealing pre-amp highlighting a weakness elsewhere in the system. i had an issue with 252 not sounding any good when i owned it. after a lot of to- and fro-, it turned out to be a mains problem. but i guess its 'safer'/easier to just fall back on personal preferences as the whole thing is so subjective anyhow...

General point accepted. But IIRC c.2007 when Naim had their Suggested Systems I- VI on this site, a system containing a NAC252 was never fronted with anything less than a CDS3. Not that this will be a problem for the OP with his NDS, 555psu.

C.

Ken is of course right about the judgements ultimately being subjective.  I also think we get rather fixated about what is "better" as opposed to a "higher specification".    The 252 is simply developed and manufactured to a higher spec. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Ken is of course right about the judgements ultimately being subjective.  I also think we get rather fixated about what is "better" as opposed to a "higher specification"....

i agree the specifications become irrelevant (and I think they are all a much of muchness) - its how they sound and what performs better in your setup that is the most important - and that is where the 252 and 250 really work for me

I have some difficulty understanding how a preamp like 252 can transform CDX 2 from uncouth to musical

So either the 282 is uncouth or the CDX2.

(I'm just not prepared to upgrade to 252/Supercap - knowing that 552 is even better)

analogmusic posted:

I have some difficulty understanding how a preamp like 252 can transform CDX 2 from uncouth to musical

So either the 282 is uncouth or the CDX2.

(I'm just not prepared to upgrade to 252/Supercap - knowing that 552 is even better)

Perhaps get the Chord Dave into the system and try it with the NAC 282 first? The Dave is an interesting option as you can run it in many configurations. You can compare the Dave to the following and see where does it stand in terms of sound quality :-

1. NAC 282 / Hicap

2. NAC 282 / Supercap

3. NAC 252 / Supercap

4. NAC 552

Hi Ryder at this point, like you I am not going to upgrade beyond 282/HCDR/250DR.

If anything I may now start to think about alternatives, such as active speakers from ATC.

Or maybe from Naim/Focal, should they decide to release one in the near future.

Hi Analogmusic, good to hear. The NAC 282 / Hicap DR / NAP 250 DR is a very capable, balanced and complete system at its price point, good enough to not look higher up the ladder. Similarly like you, it's the end system for me. If there are changes to the system, it would be cables, source or speakers.

Active ATCs mean the whole Naim stack will need to go if you have the Dave.

I made my decision based on a post that Richard Dane made a long time ago 282/SC/250 is a super amplifier, and 252/300 is better, but after 282/250 law of diminishing returns....

Maybe it isn't so, maybe 252/300 is a lot better, but 282/250 is my end destination. 

As for active speakers, it isn't easy to audition and test in my own home. Maybe someday when I visit UK. Lots of things to see there though.

At the end of the day, if one does not enjoy music on a 8000 GBP (282/HC/250) amplifier (because it is "uncouth"), then something is seriously wrong.

analogmusic posted:

I made my decision based on a post that Richard Dane made a long time ago 282/SC/250 is a super amplifier, and 252/300 is better, but after 282/250 law of diminishing returns....

Maybe it isn't so, maybe 252/300 is a lot better, but 282/250 is my end destination. 

As for active speakers, it isn't easy to audition and test in my own home. Maybe someday when I visit UK. Lots of things to see there though.

At the end of the day, if one does not enjoy music on a 8000 GBP (282/HC/250) amplifier (because it is "uncouth"), then something is seriously wrong.

I wouldn't take Simon's comment the wrong way. I also use a 282/250DR and can understand what he might mean even if I don't experience it that way myself.

The CDX2, like any source, was developed to be partnered with a few combinations of system and probably had one reference system at Naim used a lot - the configurations of which are not likely to be shared with us. But the point being that in the context of a 282 with a particular room and a particular type of speakers, the balance of the CDX2 might not have been as intended.

Since we all know by now that any one component in the context of a complete system can shift the balance, I find it easy to understand how someone might say a CDX2 sounded "uncouth" (even if I would not use that turn of phrase myself) in another context that was resolved, not by changing the CDX2 but by changing the preamp.

In our case [@mention:69004037368204356], we use 282s with different speakers and different sources to each other and Simon, so we're not likely to have the exact same experience.

For example, in my case, the source is a NDX/XPSdr which is considerably more laid back sounding than Naim CDPs, so it is no wonder that I haven't heard this aspect of the 282 that some have described. On the other hand, if I get hold of a 252 one day, it is equally possible that it will necessitate changes elsewhere to retain the right balance and be the upgrade it should be. Such problems are also no that uncommon and we often tend to think that the product being added is the issue when really it is just changing the dynamic of the whole system. I've definately made changes that were a clear upgrade with 2 steps forward in several areas and one annoying step back in another because they showed up limitations which were held in check by the previous careful matching. Case in point: my 250.2 sounded a lot more exciting and punchy than my new 250DR despite being better is all other areas. What really happened was that my speakers at the time, which were well matched to the 250.2, just were not matched to the 250DR that well (they definately have different character).

It's a long winded way of saying that while I firmly beleive a 252 is a good upgrade over a 282, it can't always be simply swapped into the system. A system well balanced around the charms of a 252 is probably going to behave a bit insistantly when a 282 is dropped in. Similarly, a system well balanced around a 282 might sound underwhelming if a 252 is dropped in as-is (unless the system happened to be better suited to the 252 in the first place).

Yes I completely agree with your post, and have no issues with Simon's experience. It was more about Naim charging 8000 + GBP for a 282/HC/250.

My comment was more about the monies involved. 282/HC/250 is a serious level of cost and we all have different speakers, rooms, sources, cables, mains, earthing at home so you are quite right, one can only report what they hear themselves.

Today I just got the required cable (to be delivered to me in 3 hours) to test Chord Dave direct into 250 DR, and will report back how the 282/HCDR sounds like.

Hope you are happy with the 250 DR sounding as punchy as the 250.2, not sure if you did change your speakers yet.

 yes 250 DR has much deeper bass than 250.2 (and can match NAP 500 non DR, I hear it myself for the bass aspect only - before I get shouted down) so that might change the rhythmic drive of the system, since it is shifting a lot more air, which might slow the music down, so yes some change of speaker position is required at the very least.

Ali, Feeling Zen, I think FZ sums it up well. The CDX2 has a somewhat  forward presentation, especially in the lower mid. it really grooves and boogies and slightly thickens otherwise thinnish vocals from recordings by Lou Reed or Bob Dylan making them sound more appealing... I like this.

Now perhaps the 282 does something similar? And coupled with the CDX2 it just gets too much for my tastes. Couple it to the 252 then perhaps the CDX2 just comes through more as it is un modified.... it's only a theory and I could be talking complete rubbish... buts it's a certainly a real experience outcome.

Ali if you were in East Suffolk I'd invite you round for a beer and a listen...

Hi Simon, thank you for invitation, would like to hear you system and yes I don't doubt your experience at all, sometimes synergies do change between pre-amp, power amp, speakers, and sources.

I also don't doubt that 252/SC is a superior preamp, but I don't want to spend money for it.... ignorance of how 252/SC sounds in my system is bliss

Indeed Ali, it's what works for you... I don't doubt the 552 is a better preamp than the 252, and the Statement NAC better than the 552... but my musical enjoyment 'resonance' is currently with the 252, and it appears yours is with the 282.. enjoy that music.. especially with that DAVE 

Important to remember that it's all good provided the synergy is there.   A little while ago I heard a Unitiqute/Neat Iotas just gorgeous.  

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Important to remember that it's all good provided the synergy is there.  

..... including the room 

Chris Dolan posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Important to remember that it's all good provided the synergy is there.  

..... including the room 

The room is the most important aspect. 

Chris Dolan posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Important to remember that it's all good provided the synergy is there.  

..... including the room 

..... and the music.  

Chag -

Hi guys.  A quick update. 

Dealer has kindly obtained a 552 from Naim for me to try at home. This will be happening this weekend. 

Might treat myself to a new pair of socks and a bottle of fine whisky for the week ahead.