Can I decide anything in an unbalanced system? e.g. cdx2 vs cdx2/ndac

Andib,

Firstly, your amps should be good enough to hear the difference between a CDX2 and say, a CD555, so more than up to task here.

Leaving aside for a moment, your subjective experience, it's interesting to compare and my feeling here (I have not done the comparison test myself) is that adding the Naim DAC to the CDX2 is possibly a case of "swings and roundabouts"?, i.e. in some areas you win, in other you lose. For example, the DAC chipsets are similar - selected PCM1704Ks, although the CDX2 uses a selected PDM200 Oversampling set, whereas the Naim DAC uses Naim's own rather sophisticated DSP.  The Naim DAC also uses a fully discrete analogue output stage that is perhaps more closely related to the one in the CDS3 than the CDX2.  However, against that, the DAC relies on an s/pdif connection between it and the CDX2 acting as transport, whereas the CDX2 has the DAC right there inside with no nasty s/pdif to worry about.  

Quite possibly, of greater benefit to a CDX2 is upping the power supply ante; an XPS2 or, better yet, a 555PS.  I have heard both of these together with a CDX2 and the result is sonic dynamite, particularly the latter - a real thriller.

But, as I say, I have not compared against a CDX2 with Naim DAC (DC1 in between?) so, I'm not fully qualified to answer here.

great post from Richard.

SPDIF is not error free, and results can vary depending on which digital cable is used.

I wouldn't complicate my life with SPDIF if I can avoid it and would use the CDX2, and upgrade the power supply if funds allow.

good digital interconnects also cost a lot of money.

I have compared and prefered the CDX2 direct though there was a 555ps swapped between the CD and DAC depending which was providing the alalog out. There was a bit less detail direct from the CD player but it held together better which to me is where it counts. This was with 282/SC/250.

In my opinion you should look first at replacing you FC with the latest hicapDR.

I bet you'll be astonished at hearing what your kit is capable of.

Antonio1 posted:

In my opinion you should look first at replacing you FC with the latest hicapDR.

I bet you'll be astonished at hearing what your kit is capable of.

+1 - definitely. Get a HiCap - in fact, get any HICap, DR or non-DR. Best stick to the HC2 though, so its matches and could be DR'ed, later.

Thanks to you all, esp. to Richard for the detailed explanation. I use the dc1 and I do hear some differences, but only little. If I understand you right, this will not change dramatically with a better amp/ps. So I can sell the ndac and save the money for the next step some day, a sc to prepare for a 252. I know the hc is very good and very popular but I think about 202/scdr to prepare for 252/scdr. Bad idea? But this is another thread.. Many thanks, this was a good help!

I'd go for an XPS2 or 555PS on the CDX2 first, then maybe a Hicap or Supercap.  Try it out and see.

analogmusic posted:

 

good digital interconnects also cost a lot of money.

Not allways IME

Bet 9 out of 10 can't detect diff in a blind test but not many will admit it

Agreed though, keeping away from potential SPDIF errors makes sence

true, but the better quality DAC like NDAC, Hugo and Chord Dave lets you hear it.

Again, it isn't really about jitter, and all these DACS deal with jitter, but about the getting  closer (and the better the cable, the more data integrity it has) 100 % data to the dac, in order words about getting closer to bit perfect data.

ianrobertm posted:

Antonio1 posted:

In my opinion you should look first at replacing you FC with the latest hicapDR.

I bet you'll be astonished at hearing what your kit is capable of.

+1 - definitely. Get a HiCap - in fact, get any HICap, DR or non-DR. Best stick to the HC2 though, so its matches and could be DR'ed, later.

Any Hicap apart from DR is identically inside, except from trafo changed 20-25 years ago

DR not everybodys cup of tea so listen for your own opinion, personally I don't rate a 202 and guess Naim are working on new range to replace 152, 202, 282, 252 maybe in 2017

analogmusic posted:

but about the getting  closer (and the better the cable, the more data integrity it has) 100 % data to the dac, in order words about getting closer to bit perfect data.

Really ? I'd never realised the S/PDIF connection was so bad at losing data. I'd have thought it would be clicks and pops if this was the case but i suppose you learn something new everyday...

james n posted:

analogmusic posted:

but about the getting  closer (and the better the cable, the more data integrity it has) 100 % data to the dac, in order words about getting closer to bit perfect data.

Really ? I'd never realised the S/PDIF connection was so bad at losing data. I'd have thought it would be clicks and pops if this was the case but i suppose you learn something new everyday...

Or trust every marketing blob is true

Not sure what to suggest here.

I think the CDX2.2/NDAC/555PS is the best sounding combination given the possible permutations between them. Wouldn't go for a lesser  PS than the 555 here.

You already have the CDX2.2 and NDAC, but looking at the rest of your system with the 202/200/napsc/FC, then maybe a better PS  to replace the FC on the amplification. Should bring a better balance to the overall system.

I agree with Graham here. I've tried my CDX2.2 powered by my 555PS and while good, it was a fair way behind the performance of the source with the nDAC powered by the 555PS which gave better sound-staging, detail retrieval, flow. The sound seemed to have a much bigger colour palette. 

Mike

But so much wasted electronics in the CDX22

Andib posted:

Thanks to you all, esp. to Richard for the detailed explanation. I use the dc1 and I do hear some differences, but only little. If I understand you right, this will not change dramatically with a better amp/ps. So I can sell the ndac and save the money for the next step some day, a sc to prepare for a 252. I know the hc is very good and very popular but I think about 202/scdr to prepare for 252/scdr. Bad idea? But this is another thread.. Many thanks, this was a good help!

no, 202/200 is half an amp ,and fc is for lesser amps.

another thread? Don't get this, we are talking of your system,you're paying to get a certain level o sound

Hang on a minute this blighter's got an NDS/555ps as well as a CDX2 so he can try the ps on the CD player without stepping out the door, the next step is obviuosly sell the DAC and go for the supercap, it will do very nicely on his superline when he succumbs to 552, it's only a matter of time whether there's a 252 in between or not. The NDS can also be used as a DAC can it not, so this could also be fed from the CD player as an experiment and would give access to the 555ps for streaming and CD playback. It would be interesting to hear if the CDX2 boogie survives the trip through an NDX compared to the rip.

yeti42 posted:

Hang on a minute this blighter's got an NDS/555ps as well as a CDX2 so he can try the ps on the CD player without stepping out the door, the next step is obviuosly sell the DAC and go for the supercap, it will do very nicely on his superline when he succumbs to 552, it's only a matter of time whether there's a 252 in between or not. The NDS can also be used as a DAC can it not, so this could also be fed from the CD player as an experiment and would give access to the 555ps for streaming and CD playback. It would be interesting to hear if the CDX2 boogie survives the trip through an NDX compared to the rip.

Re:the 555ps interchange, I was thinking the same as an audition of the CDX2.2/NADAC/555ps. I think a S.Cap would be the next step up, and as you say can be utilised elsewhere i (superline) if he goes for the 552 in future.

I tried every combination bare cdx2, cdx2/ndac, cdx2/555dr, cdx2/ndac/555dr, CDX2/nds/555dr as a dac and the best for me is the three box solution with the ndac. But I don't want a three box cdp and need the ps for the nds and all other differences for me are not that big. And that's why I asked here: could this be possible? Yes it is. And the nds as a dac for the cdx2 for me is disappointing. No solution. So I will run the bare cdx2 and it's really great.

The dc1 for me with the ndac is very different to other cables I heard. The best.

Found today a six year old sc for a good price and perhaps that's it. Many words but now I know better where to go. Thank you for all the advices. 

I think I must tried all possible combinations of CDX2.2, nDAC, XPS and 555PS

My personal order of preference would be something along the lines:

1. CDX2

2. CDX2 + XPS

3. CDX2 + nDAC

4. CDX2 + nDAC + XPS (XPS used on nDAC)

5. CDX2 + nDAC + 555PS (555 used on nDAC)

6. CDX2 + 555PS

Number 6 is my preferred set up - it just sounds right, fun and engaging.

Adam