Hugo 2

Rob Watts uses laptops with his Dave, so if it is good enough for the man who invented Dave, I'm not going to question that.  

As he said, he removes the charger from his laptop for critical listening.

There are some laptops with 12 hour battery life....

analogmusic posted:

Rob Watts uses laptops with his Dave, so if it is good enough for the man who invented Dave, I'm not going to question that.

Rob Watts may wear wellingtons in bed, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good idea.

Hungryhalibut posted:

 

Rob Watts may wear wellingtons in bed, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good idea.

Well that would provide a degree of galvanic isolation ...

analogmusic posted:

Rob Watts uses laptops with his Dave, so if it is good enough for the man who invented Dave, I'm not going to question that.  

As he said, he removes the charger from his laptop for critical listening.

There are some laptops with 12 hour battery life....

I think that is the point, RW does that with Dave, which has inbuilt galvanic isolation - I am not awate  that he has made any suggestion that running a laptop on batteries prevents RF interference in Hugomand Mojo. And FEIW I think he also found that for perfection two usb regens are beneficial even with battery driven laptop and the inbuilt galvanic isolation. But perfection there is, I think, where as a designer he is listening for the tiniest nuance of differences - at the end of the day it depends on the listener's ears, and of course in practice the rest of the system. I know that to me, with my Mac Mini, in my system, the effect of RF into Hugo was very obvious and I didn't like it: if Gustard hadn't removed it I would have abandoned Audirvana, simple as that, but with it it leapt ahead of my ND5XS as renderer. I can't comment on battery laptop with Audirvana as I don't have one. BUt if I was buying a store/renderer now I would seriously consider other things like Melco and Core, and compare their performance, and not necessarily a mac laptop with long battery life dedicatabke to being a source.

Oops - more haste less speed! FEIW=FWIW, Hugomand =Hugo and, awate=aware, and that other great new word dedicatabke=dedicatable.

Hmack posted:

Halloween Man,

An interesting set of observations!

The Mojo is better than the Hugo

The Hugo TT is better than the Hugo (I assume, given that you bought one)

The Hugo TT is better than the Dave.

Is the Mojo better than the Dave?

So to your ears, I assume that you would rate the Chord DACs from best to worst as:

1. Hugo TT 

2. Dave (or Mojo)

3. Mojo (or Dave)

4. Hugo

Your ears obviously do not lie to you, but this does indeed seem very strange and pretty unlikely, but I guess not entirely impossible.

I have to admit that the only Chord DAC I have heard is the Hugo (Mark 1), but since I own one, I am devastated to hear that:

"Not having galvanic isolation means it's not really fit for purpose for home\main system duties"

Fortunately, my ears tell me otherwise.

Over the last few months I've been trying a selection of the Chord DACs on extended trials in my system, in comparison with my QBD76HDSD. Source is Melco N1Z into iFi USB supply then Gemini USB cable.

I've tried DAVE twice now with different sources, Hugo thanks to Nick From Suffolk who kindly provided his one on long-term loan, and now the Hugo TT. In making the various comparisons I've called on other ears to give their opinion. I've now established the following order of preference 1. QBD - I'm obviously most familiar with this one, but to my ears it gives the best balance between detail, drive, and musicality. 2. Hugo - I think, if I had a Hugo, I wouldn't be swapping it for a QBD and vice versa. It really is a most surprising machine, and probably suffers a bit from its tiddly size (how can that little thing be making such fine music?). It really is a genuine, cast-iron bargain. 3. Hugo TT - A smoother, perhaps more detailed presentation than the Hugo, it's very "nice" but ultimately it lacks a bit of balls for me. I can imagine some folk preferring this type of presentation though. 4. DAVE - I really wanted to like DAVE, it's wonderfully detailed, airy, great bass performance but ultimately it lacks musicality, making the music rather uninteresting. As always, the conclusions only apply to my system and preferences.

Having compared Mojo, Hugo, Hugo TT and then Dave, I would agree with the Chord Hierarchy.

As TonyM says, Dave didn't work out in his system, but I haven't heard his system.... It does sound better than Hugo in my system.

PS : I own Mojo, used to own Hugo, and own Dave, so well familiar with how each one sounds.

Anyway at this level of spend (8500 GBP for Dave), better to listen with your own ears, and form your own opinion.

The galvanic isolation thing has proved not to be worth getting your knickers in a twist about in my experience after several experiments. I'm sure things may vary in other systems however. 

On the other hand I could hear a distinct detrimental effect on sound quality in my then system of Optimised MacMini/Audirvana with dedicated USB bus-Hugo-Musical Fidelity P270-IMF RSPM, which, as intimated, was a deal-breaker. It may well be that it depends very much on the source and the rest of the system - however it is easily and cheaply solved, for me by inserting GustardU12 before Hugo, and even if someone thinks a computer sounds good direct into Hugo, they might be missing even better for want if such a simple addition (not to mention ensuring the best renderer and optimising the computer). BTW I didn't compare other solutions, Gustard doing so well, and various reviews having been adversely critical of other solutions other than mega expensive ones.

tonym posted:

[...] 3. Hugo TT - A smoother, perhaps more detailed presentation than the Hugo, it's very "nice" but ultimately it lacks a bit of balls for me. I can imagine some folk preferring this type of presentation though.

Of all the DACs, the Hugo TT is the only one I know. My impressions were exactly the ones posted by Tony, which is why I bought the NDAC (unlike Tony).

tonym posted:

Hmack posted:

Halloween Man,

An interesting set of observations!

The Mojo is better than the Hugo

The Hugo TT is better than the Hugo (I assume, given that you bought one)

The Hugo TT is better than the Dave.

Is the Mojo better than the Dave?

So to your ears, I assume that you would rate the Chord DACs from best to worst as:

1. Hugo TT 

2. Dave (or Mojo)

3. Mojo (or Dave)

4. Hugo

Your ears obviously do not lie to you, but this does indeed seem very strange and pretty unlikely, but I guess not entirely impossible.

I have to admit that the only Chord DAC I have heard is the Hugo (Mark 1), but since I own one, I am devastated to hear that:

"Not having galvanic isolation means it's not really fit for purpose for home\main system duties"

Fortunately, my ears tell me otherwise.

Over the last few months I've been trying a selection of the Chord DACs on extended trials in my system, in comparison with my QBD76HDSD. Source is Melco N1Z into iFi USB supply then Gemini USB cable.

I've tried DAVE twice now with different sources, Hugo thanks to Nick From Suffolk who kindly provided his one on long-term loan, and now the Hugo TT. In making the various comparisons I've called on other ears to give their opinion. I've now established the following order of preference 1. QBD - I'm obviously most familiar with this one, but to my ears it gives the best balance between detail, drive, and musicality. 2. Hugo - I think, if I had a Hugo, I wouldn't be swapping it for a QBD and vice versa. It really is a most surprising machine, and probably suffers a bit from its tiddly size (how can that little thing be making such fine music?). It really is a genuine, cast-iron bargain. 3. Hugo TT - A smoother, perhaps more detailed presentation than the Hugo, it's very "nice" but ultimately it lacks a bit of balls for me. I can imagine some folk preferring this type of presentation though. 4. DAVE - I really wanted to like DAVE, it's wonderfully detailed, airy, great bass performance but ultimately it lacks musicality, making the music rather uninteresting. As always, the conclusions only apply to my system and preferences.

I understand Tony's comment refers only to his system and his ears, but I've owned Dave for eight months now where it'e been the centre of my musical enjoyment (apart from the NAT01) every day, most of those days. I was aware of Tony's viewpoint before I demoed it (at length) and bought it and have consistently struggled to find this lack of musicality. It does everything a Hugo does and then some, particularly in the way it presents the mid-range, full of passion for vocals. The thing that gets me with it is that I'm still in the "what will this sound like" phase - and that tells me I've got past any "gee-whiz-listen-to-the-Hi-Fi" stage that can sometimes flatters to deceive.

What I will say is that it's incredibly revealing and that may upset the balance of a system. I'm hoping to move house in the next six months and I'm keenly aware that my system, put together by ear over the last 19 years in its current position, may not be what I want when plonked down in another room! 

My less than ideal room acoustics was perhaps one of the reasons I did not get on with Dave, there was more bass and the soundstage and imaging didn't sound quite right. Instrument timbres and subtleties were remarkable. With Dave I experienced something I had never experienced before - it was like my brain did not have to work hard to hear subtle details, they were easy to pick out. With TT the subtle details were also there but I could feel my brain working harder to pick them out.

A polarising thing with Dave is its sheer lack of noise and distortion giving a very warm and smooth presentation that some describe as uninteresting. Same thing when comparing Hugo to TT only the gap is a lot closer.

Out of interest, where do folk think the Naim Dac fits into the heirarchy of the Chord DACs.

Hi Elkman,

you will get some pretty inconclusive feedback. I prefer the NDAC, without external PSU, to the Hugo TT. Many others prefer the Hugo over the Naim with XPS or even 555PS. Those obviously like what the PSUs add to the DAC. The TT is supposedly better than the Hugo etc. 

So, in summary there is no bad choice.  Jolly good.

My nDAC XPS much prefers my laptop with it's custom linear supply. It's much more detailed, energetic and open vs battery power.

Mulberry posted:

Hi Elkman,

you will get some pretty inconclusive feedback. I prefer the NDAC, without external PSU, to the Hugo TT. Many others prefer the Hugo over the Naim with XPS or even 555PS. Those obviously like what the PSUs add to the DAC. The TT is supposedly better than the Hugo etc. 

So, it could be argued that DACs are almost utilitarian where the various price points do not necessarily reflect performance. If Naim were to introduce a new DAC it may not be competitive in terms of price vs performance with the lower priced Chords and manufacturers of other high quality lower priced DACs. Naim could well have a challenging future in this arena unless they can release something blindingly good at a sensible price point.

More evidence that you mustn't be overly swayed by price, specifications, manufacturer's hype, demos not in your own system, or others' opinions.

now now Tony let's not put down the DAVE as being the least musical of all the Chord DAC's as gospel.

You are entitled to your view, but many people with discerning ears, and not so huge wallets paid hard earned money for a Dave and found Dave to be the best and most musical DAC that Chord makes. That is my view anyway. 

We agree to disagree, but anyone spending 8500 GBP on a DAC has to hear for themselves, on that we do agree.

tonym posted:

More evidence that you mustn't be overly swayed by price, specifications, manufacturer's hype, demos not in your own system, or others' opinions.

Quite - i don't get how this becomes so emotive over the various Chord DAC's. We all have different preferences, ears, systems. 

analogmusic posted:

now now Tony let's not put down the DAVE as being the least musical of all the Chord DAC's as gospel.

You are entitled to your view, but many people with discerning ears, and not so huge wallets paid hard earned money for a Dave and found Dave to be the best and most musical DAC that Chord makes. That is my view anyway. 

We agree to disagree, but anyone spending 8500 GBP on a DAC has to hear for themselves, on that we do agree.

Read my posting again. What part of it do you disagree with, exactly?  I'm not putting anything down, our views differ. I always stress it's my own opinion (although with DAVE it was others as well), based on experiences in my own system. Seems to me you're the one to get rather agitated because I don't happen to like the things you do.

This endless discussion of Chord dacs is becoming rather tedious, with some portraying them as a cure all for everything from the common cold to erectile disfunction. Perhaps Naim should start charging Chord for hosting their forum for them. I know, I can ignore it if I want, but they seem to be mentioned on nearly every thread. If someone asked about a new teapot someone would suggest that their life was incomplete with out a Hugo 2, mojo 6 or whatever Rob Watts has knocked up in his tea break.

Hungryhalibut posted:

This endless discussion of Chord dacs is becoming rather tedious, with some portraying them as a cure all for everything from the common cold to erectile disfunction. Perhaps Naim should start charging Chord for hosting their forum for them. I know, I can ignore it if I want, but they seem to be mentioned on nearly every thread. If someone asked about a new teapot someone would suggest that their life was incomplete with out a Hugo 2, mojo 6 or whatever Rob Watts has knocked up in his tea break.

In this case, I think it is a thread about Hugo 2, so maybe less than surprising to find some repetitive mention of Chord DACs? Just like the DYnaudio one has constant mention of Dynaudio, MQA one has mention of MQA, etc...

Hungryhalibut posted:

This endless discussion of Chord dacs is becoming rather tedious, with some portraying them as a cure all for everything from the common cold to erectile disfunction. Perhaps Naim should start charging Chord for hosting their forum for them. I know, I can ignore it if I want, but they seem to be mentioned on nearly every thread. If someone asked about a new teapot someone would suggest that their life was incomplete with out a Hugo 2, mojo 6 or whatever Rob Watts has knocked up in his tea break.

Well, my Chord DAC cooked me a lovely fried breakfast this morning. I was really surprised, but there we are, it's perfectly true. A truly wonderful device in my book.

Chord fans to chord Forum!  The topic may say " hugo2" but we don't like foreigners here

I propose a chordexit referandum 

This brand is stealing hifi money from our naim spending with better priced dacs, soon it will come to power amps etc..

NDS with double ps what we must buy instead of paying half price Dave,  I have no idea how they sound anyway

You should all buy our homegrown,humble 272 and get on with it without turning to grumpy old men

Just like I did

I think prospective buyers of anything should really demo and hear for themselves if they like it or not.

giving an opinion is useful for other forum members but giving advice or recommendations based on ones own experience can be dangerous. We all hear things differently. System synergy, etc.

i listened to the Hugo last summer at CanJam with Audeze LCD2. It blew me away! I couldn't believe the sound been produced. I was comparing not to other headphone rigs ( I'm new to this game) but my stereo system of which I have many 100's hours listening time over the last 2 years.

i then switched over to Mojo with same components. Didn't like it, something was missing for me. So that's how I hear it.

are Chord products the best and only option for people? Of course not!

im really looking forward to Naims next entries in this realm and can't wait to hear them.

i am however a big fan of Chord DACS but also a big fan of Naim amplification. I write this with the 2Qute DAC in mind for static systems. A few members here seem to dismiss it readily. I am using one in my headphone rig.

a simple system really:

MacPro ssd (battery power) > JRiver > 2Qute > Cavalli Liquid Gold amp> MrSpeakers Ether Flow Open on ballanced cables.

the same music library is used as my Stereo main system.

im listening to it as I type. In fact the last 4 hours. So again I compare the sound produced here to my stereo system. 

All instruments are reproduced so accurately, the music really Flows and I never get fatigued. 

It really does amaze me as to how the 2Qute performs. I have had several goosebump moments this afternoon and struggling to switch it off. I really need to as I need to go downstairs and eat something, lol.

So, why all the above babble. Please use peoples experiences but also please demo these components for yourselves . There is plenty to chose from out there, we are very fortunate really.

Regarding the Hugo2, I would expect something really special here! I'm looking forward to listening to it and seeing for myself but of course it doesn't mean the Hugo is broken.

Anyone owning one I think is really lucky and I'm sure it will continue to produce wonderful music.

all the best peeps.