F1 - 2017
Posted by: Tony2011 on 06 January 2017
The championship has not yet started and it seems the poor Manor Racing is about to go into receivership and be the first casualty of 2017. I wish them well and hope they can find a buyer and be able to compete this season.
Bananahead posted:No that is exactly what it does mean. If anyone had acted recklessly then they would have been penalised. Penalties are given in almost every race.
It’s not that clear cut... especially during the start.
Vettel was overly aggressive. In the situation that was (IMO) reckless.
PS. according to formula1.com the stewards “[found] no one driver wholly or predominantly to blame.” Thats not saying there was no blame at all.
It\s a race. Aggression is expected.
It means that the blame was shared.
Bananahead posted:It\s a race. Aggression is expected.
It means that the blame was shared.
Yes, but at the end of the day he was at least partly responsible for a crash which put him out the race and has all but wrecked his chances of winning the World Championship. He has no one to cry to but himself. And Ferrari have no one to point the finger at but themselves. It wasn’t Red Bull who within minutes of the incident were blaming Ferrari.
Agression is expected, but sometimes the best move is to ease back especially when there is a bigger prize at stake than just one race win!
Bananahead posted:No that is exactly what it does mean. If anyone had acted recklessly then they would have been penalised. Penalties are given in almost every race.
That is generally the way it is, but when ferrari are involved the penalty does not always fit the crime.
Ferrari have a special relationship with F1, that usually means they are treated with leniency....
wenger2015 posted:Bananahead posted:No that is exactly what it does mean. If anyone had acted recklessly then they would have been penalised. Penalties are given in almost every race.
That is generally the way it is, but when ferrari are involved the penalty does not always fit the crime.
Ferrari have a special relationship with F1, that usually means they are treated with leniency....
And what evidence do you have to support that claim? Quotes from FIA officials? Anything other than speculation?
Bananahead posted:wenger2015 posted:Bananahead posted:No that is exactly what it does mean. If anyone had acted recklessly then they would have been penalised. Penalties are given in almost every race.
That is generally the way it is, but when ferrari are involved the penalty does not always fit the crime.
Ferrari have a special relationship with F1, that usually means they are treated with leniency....
And what evidence do you have to support that claim? Quotes from FIA officials? Anything other than speculation?
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence; that's why they're also known as Ferrari International Assistance!
There's always the matter of the free gift of extra money Ferrari are paid irrespective of where they finish, but the rest of it is now a lot more subtle than it used to be. So, to answer your question, yes it has been acknowledged by the FIA (and all the other teams).
Huge posted:Bananahead posted:wenger2015 posted:Bananahead posted:No that is exactly what it does mean. If anyone had acted recklessly then they would have been penalised. Penalties are given in almost every race.
That is generally the way it is, but when ferrari are involved the penalty does not always fit the crime.
Ferrari have a special relationship with F1, that usually means they are treated with leniency....
And what evidence do you have to support that claim? Quotes from FIA officials? Anything other than speculation?
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence; that's why they're also known as Ferrari International Assistance!
There's always the matter of the free gift of extra money Ferrari are paid irrespective of where they finish, but the rest of it is now a lot more subtle than it used to be. So, to answer your question, yes it has been acknowledged by the FIA (and all the other teams).
It is not only Ferrari that get unfair payments. McLaren, Mercedes, Williams and Red Bull do as well. So half the constructors are dis-advantaged.
Moderated Post: Bananahead, if you are going to quote another member then please do not apply a wholesale edit - particularly where it totally changes the meaning of what is being quoted. That's out of order. If you wish to partially quote then either show by a "snip" or add appropriate punctuation (...ellipsis...) to show that the quote has been taken from within a larger text. I have reinstated the original quote.
Apologies for editing.
It may be funny to refer to the FIA as Ferrari International Assistance but it is obviously untrue.
If it has been acknowledged by either the FIA or the others teams then why not post some linked quotes.
I don’t really follow Huge’s argument regarding the FIA, it isn’t logical. Lets say in the past the FIA found Ferrari not guilty of an offence, when they where guilty. (and I don’t know if that’s true). You can’t assume every time the FIA find Ferrari not guilty, they are really guilty.
When assessing whether Vettel did anything wrong you have to take Raikenan out of the equation. Vettel simply guided Verstappen towards the inside of the track. If Raikenan hadn’t got involved, I’m pretty sure Verstappen would have slotted in behind Vettel before the bend.
If you look at the video below, at 3 seconds Verstappen is driving his car towards Vettel. There’s no doubt, if Verstappen had managed to get ahead of Vettel, he’d have forced him to the outside of the track.
With regards to the suggestion Vettel blew his chance of winning the championsip and should have been more cautious. Perhaps Vettel realised the Mercedes would be far superior in the remaining races, he didn’t have a realistic chance of the championship, but this was his last chance to win a GP this year.
Shocker for Vettel in Malaysia !!!! Engine trouble in Q1 & did not set a time
Shame ...
OK so he's starting at the back of the grid tomorrow; my bet is Ferrari will change out everything on the power unit & take a shed load of penalties & that gives him a new clean penalty total for Japan next weekend. Then tomorrow its Maylasia, good chance of rain, its all to play for.
It looks like Mclaren has finally turn the tide with both cars in the top ten. I am also very impressed with Ocon who is as good as Verstapen but with a few more brains cells instead of just sheer speed. Future looks bright Should be an interesting race.
Guesses on where Vettel will be at turn one, lap two?
I'll got for 12th.
Ok race. Vettel drove well from the back of the grid. Bizarre post race incident between Vettel and Stroll
Yep. Well dead weird sight
Sat waiting for some video footage, hopefully after the trophies.
Looked like he overtook Stroll just as Stroll moved out to pick up 'marbles'. Vettel messed up again, but no points lost.
From the car behind it looks like Stroll jjst moved over into Vettel.
Rather bizarrely I'm not going to blame Seb for that one...
It did.... didn't it.
If it wasn't for his Dad's money, I don't think Stroll would be racing. Nor should he be allowed to...
Adam Zielinski posted:If it wasn't for his Dad's money, I don't think Stroll would be racing. Nor should he be allowed to...
Have you looked at his racing history?
Vettel is at least partly to blame, as Stroll was doing what every driver does on the slowing down lap: collecting 'marbles' to bring the car's weight up. Vettel, an excellent multiple champion, would know this and should have been more cautious about unnecessarily overtaking.
Just to add:
Lance Stroll (born 29 October 1998) is a Belgian-Canadian racing driver, currently driving in Formula One with Williams. He was Italian F4 champion in 2014, Toyota Racing Series champion in 2015, and 2016 FIA European Formula 3 champion. He was part of the Ferrari Driver Academy from 2010 to 2015. He achieved his first podium finishing, a 3rd place, at the 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix, becoming the second-youngest driver to finish an F1 race on the podium and the youngest to do so during his rookie season.
From Wikipedia.
Adam Zielinski posted:It did.... didn't it.
If it wasn't for his Dad's money, I don't think Stroll would be racing. Nor should he be allowed to...
Would you care to elaborate Adam? It's hardly the lad's fault if his father's loaded, and from the little I've seen, he appears pretty talented. Do you know something we don't?
There is a difference between drivers who are in F1 due to their sheer talent vs drivers who drive because they pay to be there....
Adam Zielinski posted:There is a difference between drivers who are in F1 due to their sheer talent vs drivers who drive because they pay to be there....
Look at my quote from Wikipedia. What more would you ask?
And, the truth is that Williams are a team running in financial credit. Are you criticising Williams for requiring their own books to be balanced?
Stroll should have a bright future, as long as he copes with the relentless pressure of being a modern F1 driver.