F1 - 2017

Tony2011 posted:

There have been great races at Monaco in the past with some incredible overtaking. Unfortunately today's was not one of them and if you think Monaco is boring, spare a monument for poor "Frodo" Alonso going round and round and round Indy. HTF can anyone enjoy "racing" on an oval circuit?

Son

One lap at Indy and you would be wetting your pants. You my find it boring to watch but it is far from boring to drive.

Clay Bingham posted:

Tony2011 posted:

There have been great races at Monaco in the past with some incredible overtaking. Unfortunately today's was not one of them and if you think Monaco is boring, spare a monument for poor "Frodo" Alonso going round and round and round Indy. HTF can anyone enjoy "racing" on an oval circuit?

Son

One lap at Indy and you would be wetting your pants. You my find it boring to watch but it is far from boring to drive.

Dad, 

I wet me "trousers" just watching it! 

Tony2011 posted:

Clay Bingham posted:

Tony2011 posted:

There have been great races at Monaco in the past with some incredible overtaking. Unfortunately today's was not one of them and if you think Monaco is boring, spare a monument for poor "Frodo" Alonso going round and round and round Indy. HTF can anyone enjoy "racing" on an oval circuit?

Son

One lap at Indy and you would be wetting your pants. You my find it boring to watch but it is far from boring to drive.

Dad, 

I wet me "trousers" just watching it! 

LOL! Tony, it's the one race I watch each year that, even today, gives me the willies. After Scott Dixon's accident and this last one you wonder how much longer can they do this at this speed.

Clay Bingham posted:

Tony2011 posted:

Clay Bingham posted:

Tony2011 posted:

There have been great races at Monaco in the past with some incredible overtaking. Unfortunately today's was not one of them and if you think Monaco is boring, spare a monument for poor "Frodo" Alonso going round and round and round Indy. HTF can anyone enjoy "racing" on an oval circuit?

Son

One lap at Indy and you would be wetting your pants. You my find it boring to watch but it is far from boring to drive.

Dad, 

I wet me "trousers" just watching it! 

LOL! Tony, it's the one race I watch each year that, even today, gives me the willies. After Scott Dixon's accident and this last one you wonder how much longer can they do this at this speed.

It's all good. Just seen Frodo's Honda engine giving up the ghost. At least they are showing consistency. 

That's a shame. But as you say, consistent.Honda engine?

As for Monaco, I must confess to falling asleep to be woken up by the German National Anthem, which told me all I needed to know.

It was boring. But a great atmosphere!

Baku a bit of a car crash...but what on earth was Vettel thinking...surely it wasn't a dastardly plan to gain advantage?

G

10 secs penalty and 3 points on his license in not enough for so such a unsportsmanlike attitude. That guy needs a serious kick in the back sside and  a slap on the wrist and is not enough. He already had 6 points., so not the first time. 

Any other team or driver, would have suffered the wrath of the FIA. Of course, being Ferrari, and  reading the italian press, they are all blaming Lewis. 

Unfortunately,  that is  F1 these days.

GraemeH posted:

Baku a bit of a car crash...but what on earth was Vettel thinking...surely it wasn't a dastardly plan to gain advantage?

G

 It looked like plain simple red mist road rage to me,  The stewards had the FIA telemetry data to review & it showed no evidence of 'brake testing'  & that Hamilton had behaved exactly the same in that area of the track at both safety car restarts.     My initial reaction was that the 10 sec penalty was a joke & he should have been black flagged.  That must have been a consideration with the stewards,  maybe the low speed & safety car rules at the time of impact played a role in giving only 10 seconds.    

Vettel was also given 3 penalty points for the incident - he now has a total of 9 for the past 12 months,  3 more & he gets a race ban.   The penalty points he collected in 2016 are due to expire after the Austrian GP.

I think Nico was trying to tell us something! 

Vettel's conduct has disappointed me for the last couple of seasons. He needs to take some professionalism pills.

I can't see how Hamilton can possibly be held responsible for Vetell's error of judgement. 

Penalty not harsh enough? Couldn't say. Not qualified.

Hamilton handled the incident quite well I thought otherwise it could have escalated further. 

Shocking behaviour fromVettel and he even resents the very lenient punishment.

thebigfredc posted:

Hamilton handled the incident quite well I thought otherwise it could have escalated further. 

Shocking behaviour fromVettel and he even resents the very lenient punishment.

Quite agree. Lewis is no shrinking violet and quite good at the backhanded dig but he handled this one very well.

Hamilton is an idiot for braking so hard right after the corner - a typical attitude from this egocentric egomaniac.

Vetel was also an idiot for doing what he did - a typical hard-nosed attitude he has so often displayed in the past.

Two primadonnas, who have both lost touch with reality.

For me the driver of the day was Daniel Ricciardo - at least you can always count on him to be happy with his win. He would also make a great toothpaste advertiser 

Adam

You're right, Daniel is a jewel but telemetry shows that Hamilton did not brake. He let up off the throttle in the same manner as he did the previous lap in the same spot and as leaders often do when they try to bunch up the field prior to taking off on a restart. Vettels mistake totally on this particular one.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Hamilton is an idiot for braking so hard right after the corner - a typical attitude from this egocentric egomaniac. 

Hamilton DID NOT brake after the corner,  the FIA telemetry evidence showed he held the same steady speed after the corner & that this was a repeat of the same telemetry as in the previous safety car restart.   The start of the whole incident was simply Vettel trying to anticipate Hamiltons restart & avoid being 'jumped' again as he was in the previous restart,  and in doing so he made an anticipation mistake.  Hamilton as the race leader under safety car rules controls the pace & the drivers behind are required to follow this - this is quite clear & very simple.   After that it was Vettel that lost the plot & the red mist took over.   Vettel made two mistakes - end of.

Clay Bingham posted:

Adam

You're right, Daniel is a jewel but telemetry shows that Hamilton did not brake. He let up off the throttle in the same manner as he did the previous lap in the same spot and as leaders often do when they try to bunch up the field prior to taking off on a restart. Vettels mistake totally on this particular one.

That I didn't know (re: telemetry).

Case clear now

F1 is dangerous already with drivers making it into a demolition derby.

I dare say the FIA would have taken a different view if one of them had died from a suspension/steering failure at 200mph as a result of their bump. Vettel has got off lightly in my view.

I agree. I don't think the punishment fitted the crimes at all. 10 second stop go and 3 points on his licence were for which incident? Causing an accident by running into the back of Hamilton? Using his car as a weapon and driving it into Hamilton? Or for overtaking Hamilton under the safety car? It's a joke and an aweful example to the youngsters in motor racing. 

"That I didn't know (re: telemetry)."

Neither did SV and nobody pointed it out to him in the post race interviews.

very gentle nudge for which he got the second highest penalty available.

Bananahead posted:

very gentle nudge for which he got the second highest penalty available.

What's relevant is not that the action (or even outcome), but the intent, and also  the potential outcomes that could arise (see above - what if a damaged component had caused a worse outcome?). My view is that he should have been black-flagged and that further penalties be considered.

These guys can't succeed at the highest level by being shrinking violets, but similarly, control under pressure is surely required. It was petulant, knee-jerk reaction that really has no place in the sport.

FIA now "thinking about" further sanctions.

There is some precedent after Michael Schumacher was stripped of his points in 1997 for crashing into Jacques Villeneuve.

If Hamilton is deemed to be 0% responsible for the tail end collision, I suppose it's a possibility. And why not?

Wow, he got off lightly

Causing an accident:  Drive trough (or 10 second stop-go penalty if there are some mitigating circumstances and in this case, unusually, there were none at all).

Intentionally causing an accident:  10 second drive trough penalty or black flagged, both with points on the licence.

For gaining advantage by deliberately causing an accident, I think it should be giving the place back and then a 10 second drive through.

So black flag or two drive through penalties (one for each accident he caused), one with a 10 second stop as well plus other sanctions.

Given the deliberate intentional nature of the second accident (the in-car video and telemetry clearly show that Hamilton did nothing untoward and that Vettel intentionally and aggressively drove into Hamilton's car), I believe that something that causes a definitive loss of championship points (e.g. after the race, it's a 1 race ban) is the appropriate measure as that's the only thing that will really cause him to stop and think before doing it again (and send a similar message to all other drivers).  I don't believe that Vettel will ever truly accept that his actions were wholly inappropriate.

let's not forget that Hamilton would be leading the championship if he hadn't had mechanical problems