My SN2 review

Hi Mark j

How does SN1 sounds compare to SN2 without Hi Cap?

Mark J posted:

Tidy, crisp amp. Sounds small though. Must say I expected a lot more considering the hyperbole on this site. Overall, disappointed. Too small and cultured to quality as a great Naim amp ( see.. 250, 135, Nait 2 and original Nait 5i as good examples) 

Lots of amplifiers have lower noise floor, better specs etc. But Naims rock don't they? More music, less bullshit reviewer hifi speak..

This one is ok at best. Unless you've heard a really good Naim amp...

 

Mark J posted:

I expected a lot more considering the hyperbole on this site.

Lots of folks have expressed their thoughts on the SN2 over time, many with greater elaboration than you. I'd always taken these at face value; opinions rather than hyperbole. No more or less than I'd consider your post hyperbolic. Several people have demo'd the XS2 versus the SN2 and found the former better VFM.

Despite being Naim's flagship integrated, the SN2 is a mid-level performer in their range and I don't think most folks expect otherwise at its' cost. The SN2 works for some, not for others, and they move on. As you suggest, plenty of alternatives out there to explore.

which source are you using? which speakers? which cables?

MarkJ I kind of agree with you,I owned the SN2 for about 2 years,I fed it with a Unitiqute2 digital out,into a Hugo,into the analog in's on the SN2.I really liked it,until I had a home demo of a N272/250dr for a week,to me this combo made the SN2 combo sound rather 2 dimensional(even with the Hugo).I ended up trading in the UQ2/SN2/Highcap dr on the other combo,and could not be happier.

'Tidy, crisp amp. Sounds small though'. 'Overall disappointed'. 

And on the basis of that in-depth review, it's dismissed. 

Mark J posted:

Tidy, crisp amp. Sounds small though. Must say I expected a lot more considering the hyperbole on this site. Overall, disappointed. Too small and cultured to quality as a great Naim amp ( see.. 250, 135, Nait 2 and original Nait 5i as good examples) 

Lots of amplifiers have lower noise floor, better specs etc. But Naims rock don't they? More music, less bullshit reviewer hifi speak..

This one is ok at best. Unless you've heard a really good Naim amp...

 

Terrible utterly rubbish review and I could not disagree more. I found the SN2 to be very transparent (which is what you want in a good pre amp) and very capable of getting the best out of my PMC 20.23 speakers that I had at the time that were not actually that easy to drive (which is what you want in a good power amp). If I were looking again for an integrated amp it would still be my first choice.

Surely its not a rubbish (admittedly rather brief) review just because it differs from your point of view?

- and one man's 'transparent' is certainly not the same as another man's as we have found on the Sopra thread... in fact probably no audio component is transparent (even though I am guilty of using the word) .... instead we probably have varying degrees of translucence....

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Surely its not a rubbish (admittedly rather brief) review just because it differs from your point of view?

 

+1  well said Simon! This was a brief and balanced statement of an honest opinion from someone clearly familiar with a range of Naim amplification. Whilst we are all (or mostly all) Naim fans we should remember that many people are in situations where they have no opportunity to dem before they buy and they give weight to opinions on this forum. Baseless denigration of honestly held opinions may have the effect of deterring those who differ from the mainstream.

To their eternal credit, Naim tolerate the expression of a range of views even  including those that extol other products over their own. Surely us forumites should have the grace to do the same?

I must say that I have classified it as a rubbish review. To keep this comment on the same level as the OP, I won't write my considerations down here.

I have never heard a Supernait 2 and have no axe to grind. But setting up a post as a 'review' and then to give a few rather meaningless lines that would be of no help whatsoever to a prospective purchaser certainly counts as rubbish in my book. Of course different opinions are to be welcomed, but this is not simply a different opinion, it's simply rubbish. And that's being polite. 

the amp can only amplify what it is fed, the source, so in the absence of not knowing which source, it is a rather pointless review.

Also need to know if said source is a Naim one or not. Naim sources have signal grounding.

I suspect I'd have found some dissenting voices on the SN2 rather useful. I demo'd one and - in a dealer'a room and with comparable rather than identical source/speakers - decided it was a reasonable upgrade on the XS2. 

On having it at home for a few weeks, I came to largely agree with the OP here. Possibly slightly more refined than the XS2, but with slightly less exuberance etc. The differences were minimal, and not necessarily better or worse, but not worth a c£1500 upgrade cost.

Thankfully my dealer was happy to absorb most - VAT aside - of the depreciation in return for buying a 282 and fraim, which were better in all respects. Even then, I suspect the hyperbolic praise of boxes from enthusiasts (understandably - we all want to praise what we enjoy/less charitable, we all want to convince ourselves that spending the price of a car on hifi is worth it!) and professional reviewers isn't that helpful to newcomers. For those of us not equipped with golden ears, which perhaps is likely to include many without years of hifi experience, it would be hard to understand quite how diminishing the returns are above a fairly low price point. 

Is it my imagination, or has there been a gradual but inexorable decline in the standards of politeness and tolerance  exhibited on this forum? I've had to stop reading the 'Padded Cell' posts as I find the entrenched opinions and insulting tone used in many of the posts offensive and unpleasant.

It would be a shame were this trend to gain a real foothold in the other fora. How about a good dose of traditional British 'live and let live'? Can't people simply point out their disagreement with a poster's opinions politely, rather than the terse and often downright unpleasant rubbishing in evidence in more and more posts. Some of the more 'senior' members need to demonstrate a little more humility and tolerance (imho, of course!).

Well I disagree with the OP's findings on the SN2 - it would be interesting to know a little more detail, other components and material used - but I also agree with Timmo perhaps not entirely but we do need to be respectful of differing opinions, and mindful that others will have different priorities.

Regards,

Lindsay

I'm not really sure it's about 'live and let live'. Surely if someone posts something as a 'review' it needs more than a few lines, and lines that make sense. 'Tidy, crisp amp'. What does that mean? 'Too small and cultured'? And what is the second paragraph trying to get across? How is it helpful?

The forum is hugely more tolerant than it was in years gone by, certainly people would not have been so terribly polite about such a poor quality 'review' in the past, which is probably a good thing. 

Timmo, as far as I can see the forum is much the same as it has always been - generally pretty grown up, tolerant and respectful of other members and of the hosts, Naim Audio. Of course, there are always exceptions, and any that breach forum AUP are dealt with quickly and robustly. Right now there is a certain thread in the Padded Cell regarding the UK's referendum vote to leave the EU that  raises strong passions among many on here. I allow some leeway so long as rules are not broken and no intentional Offense given. 

As ever, all I ask of members on here is to pay heed to the rules and to respect their host and their fellow members, both in theor cultural diversity and he doversity of their opinion. 

As for the Supernait 2, I haven't heard it yet so have no valid opinion except to say that I have great respect for the people who designed it and who build it. 

Sorry about the poor spelling. Big fingers and small phone.. 

The OP's review is too long. We need concision.

Nicely done, Jan-Erik. And you've taught me a new word - concision. Even better. 

Mark J posted:

Tidy, crisp amp. Sounds small though. Must say I expected a lot more considering the hyperbole on this site. Overall, disappointed. Too small and cultured to quality as a great Naim amp ( see.. 250, 135, Nait 2 and original Nait 5i as good examples) 

Lots of amplifiers have lower noise floor, better specs etc. But Naims rock don't they? More music, less bullshit reviewer hifi speak..

This one is ok at best. Unless you've heard a really good Naim amp...

 

Get some ATC SCM 40's. SN2 was the first amp I heard driving SCM 40's. The sound was HUGE and very tuneful. Source was LP12/My old Kairn/various Naim digital boxes ATC, please send cheque to...........

Hungryhalibut posted:

............ Surely if someone posts something as a 'review' it needs more than a few lines, and lines that make sense. 'Tidy, crisp amp'. What does that mean? 'Too small and cultured'? And what is the second paragraph trying to get across? How is it helpful?

Looking back on the OP's previous posts,  man of few words come to mind.   Having heard SN2,  I sort of think I know where he's coming from,  but without knowing source & speakers, its not worth getting over excited about.

Timmo1341 posted:

Is it my imagination, or has there been a gradual but inexorable decline in the standards of politeness and tolerance  exhibited on this forum? I've had to stop reading the 'Padded Cell' posts as I find the entrenched opinions and insulting tone used in many of the posts offensive and unpleasant.

It would be a shame were this trend to gain a real foothold in the other fora. How about a good dose of traditional British 'live and let live'? Can't people simply point out their disagreement with a poster's opinions politely, rather than the terse and often downright unpleasant rubbishing in evidence in more and more posts. Some of the more 'senior' members need to demonstrate a little more humility and tolerance (imho, of course!).

It's a symptom of the modern world. I blame overpopulation - see the work of John B Calhloun and his famous experiments on rodent behaviour in overpopulated environments!! 

On a serious note, as much as I wanted the SN2 to be the answer,  it didn't work in my system. The fly in the ointment was over- exuberance - too in yer face presentation. I suspect with different speakers it would have given me an alternative conclusion. I also like listening at high volumes and with my cd5xs ndac and motive 2 it didn't work for me. 

I don't think its down to the weather it is a good or bad product, it's more down to speakers, how you like to listen and what type of presentation you prefer. 

If I change my speakers I may demo again as there was also a lot to like. 

What detracts from it as a review is that we don't know the rest of the equipment used, the size of the room, what music was used, how old the amp was, was it run it - in fact we don't know anything other than the OPs view.  As an SN2 owner, and having compared it with the same system to other amps he lists, I happen to disagree with his view but he's entitled to hold it, it doesn't affect how good the amp is to me after all.  As a review I would say it's ok at best, but there are better around

without knowing the all important (for me MOST important) source, it is very unfair to blame an amplifier.