Powerline(s) with Arcam A39 & DAC V1

Seems like an awful lot of money to spend on your system. The price of two Powerlines and an A39 is not so far from the price of a Supernait, for example....or two Powerlines and a V1 would certainly put you in NDAC territory.

Hi,

i believe you raised a query on another forum recently.  

I've powerlines throughout my system and they are excellent but without being rude it's not where I would start with your system

if you like what Naim do and you should about getting some further demos as Chris says an nDac and SN2 would really be an upgrade.   I would really look at the components before fine tuning with wires.

Good luck.  

Lindsay.  

You have dipped your toe in HiFi waters and it's very easy to be swayed as you see so many options and opportunities for change. Everyone has their approach to system building and in the old days it made sense when companies were small and specialized to buy the best of each, hoping to build a synergistic result. And so you tended to see certain brands walk in certain circles, such as Linn and Naim for example, as being 'good combos' where the sum of the parts was greater than when those parts were typically used elsewhere. Over time, the companies have got larger, better at more things and generally musicality has improved. Now you need the help of a dealer to identify your individual needs for your situation and help you build a streamlined system which will provide you better performance.

Powerlines are indeed capable of a serious uplift in performance, but if the system isn't there to exploit it then it will be a waste of money, and that extra wedge might have been the difference between amplifiers, and another level of performance��. Your dealer will have significant understanding of how to build such a system and which options would be best to explore (the final choices are always yours) but he can guide you here.

Your system has given you a hint. Your dealer will help you understand what it's doing and then figure out what kind of system you will want going forward and help you build that. In the meantime, put the Powerline money in a piggy and start adding to it, so that when you have the system building plan you can contemplate it without too much pain.

Regards, Frank.

Hello,

Thankyou all for your responses, the whole system is New for me so upgrading big components already is not an option. Later on maybe in a year or so I might look at that.

I do like what naim do and am really a fan of their V1 it has to be said. Upon the demo of my current setup I switched a Cambridge audio dacmagic 100 (my old one) out for the DAC V1 and was instantly sold. Best thing I ever did at that point, bought it the same day. 

The general consensus feels like £500 on a powerline is too much to spend on a power cable for it? And don't get me wrong, it sounds great already. I like exploring options. 

DanT87 posted:

And don't get me wrong, it sounds great already. I like exploring options. 

Just enjoy it for now Dan - as you say it's new. No need to rush with upgrades and fancy power cables 

Yeh you have a point here...the problem I've had over the past few weeks was when I went from sarsen to Odyssey...and so it went on and on in my mind. I'll be on the look out for a good deal on a used powerline none the less.

Out of interest, do you plug anything else into the Arcam, other than the V1? A record player for example? If not, do you realise that you can simply add a Naim power amp to the V1? You can get a used 200 for less than the price of two Powerlines and the sound would then be miles better than the Arcam. The V1/A39 combination does sound rather odd. 

If you're itching to spend a bit more cash, there are plenty of other ways to do it which you might find worthwhile. For example, a proper equipment rack and a professionally installed dedicated mains supply will benefit you now, and continue to bring benefits as you improve the main components of your system. Maybe Powerlines could also be seen this way, but I still think they are disproportionately expensive for your system. 

Also, you could consider trying the Powerline Lite which is about to hit the market at about £100?

I realise that indeed. The combination is maybe odd. I bought the Arcam partially because i can use other equipment with it however currently I do not. 

On the flip side it delivers good power, would the 200 be up to driving the 683's? 

ChrisSU posted:

If you're itching to spend a bit more cash, there are plenty of other ways to do it which you might find worthwhile. For example, a proper equipment rack and a professionally installed dedicated mains supply will benefit you now, and continue to bring benefits as you improve the main components of your system. Maybe Powerlines could also be seen this way, but I still think they are disproportionately expensive for your system. 

Also, you could consider trying the Powerline Lite which is about to hit the market at about £100?

The powerline lite interests me greatly, I did not realise this. But equally, the normal powerline may be considered expensive for my system however I know that in time that will change as upgrades take place, the powerlines if bought now would stand me in good stead for the future, depending on how you look at it I guess 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Out of interest, do you plug anything else into the Arcam, other than the V1? A record player for example? If not, do you realise that you can simply add a Naim power amp to the V1? You can get a used 200 for less than the price of two Powerlines and the sound would then be miles better than the Arcam. The V1/A39 combination does sound rather odd. 

Good call, selling the A39 might release nearly all the cash needed for a used 200, which makes it a no brainer if you don't have other sources.

Wherever I go a can of worms is opened it seems!

DanT87 posted:

ChrisSU posted:

If you're itching to spend a bit more cash, there are plenty of other ways to do it which you might find worthwhile. For example, a proper equipment rack and a professionally installed dedicated mains supply will benefit you now, and continue to bring benefits as you improve the main components of your system. Maybe Powerlines could also be seen this way, but I still think they are disproportionately expensive for your system. 

Also, you could consider trying the Powerline Lite which is about to hit the market at about £100?

The powerline lite interests me greatly, I did not realise this. But equally, the normal powerline may be considered expensive for my system however I know that in time that will change as upgrades take place, the powerlines if bought now would stand me in good stead for the future, depending on how you look at it I guess 

I have to confess that about a year ago, I went into a bit of a Powerline buying frenzy, as I spotted quite a few used ones at very good prices. So I now have the option of trying them on any part of my system, knowing that I can sell them for more or less what I paid if I don't hear an improvement. So if you fancy trying it as a part of your long term plan, which am I to disagree?! But it wouldn't be my top priority in your position.

Thanks for the advice there chrissu, I will keep on the lookout for some used ones at good prices, I've done some reading on the lite version too, didn't seem many were impressed tbh. 

Would the 200 drive the 683s adequately? 

Personally, I think what you want to do would be money not very well spent.

Powerline's are one thousand dollars here in the states, about 1/6th the cost of a SN2, so if your looking to spend around two thousand dollars for two of them to improve your system, the suggestion to purchase of a SN2 at $6000.00 US dollars, definitely would be an improvement of what you have, but it would also be about three times what you realistically  want to spend.

I believe you can better spend your money elsewhere on other high quality power cords that would at the very least give you what you are looking for, an improvement in the overall sound of your system.

Atlas, Chord Co., Russ Andrews, Nordost, Kimber Kable, all make excellent entry level power cords that would give you what you are looking to do for considerably less money.

Interesting thoughts badlands.

One thing I am worried about is if upgrading the power cable will put me back to how it sounded with the mains conditioner strip. Was only a tacima and was advised by naim to plug directly into the wall, won't be going back now that's for sure. 

DanT87 posted:

Thanks for the advice there chrissu, I will keep on the lookout for some used ones at good prices, I've done some reading on the lite version too, didn't seem many were impressed tbh. 

Would the 200 drive the 683s adequately? 

The Lite version isn't on sale yet, so I think the jury is still out for now. It's basically a standard Naim lead with a mains plug based on the full Powerline design. At less than 20% of the cost, I figure it could be worth considering.

Regarding you speakers, to be honest, I haven't heard them, but I don't think the 200 would struggle to drive them. 

DANT87

I don't profess to have golden ears, and to be honest I personally have never experienced the night and day difference that some here claim they hear with expensive cables and power cords. My experience is that they make very subtle differences in the overall presentation, to some that is enough to warrant such expensive purchases, I try to buy equipment based on what my own ears tell me, not by the power of suggestion.

The cords I recommended to you will not altar the sound to the degree that concerns you, but some do represent excellent value, and will most definitely contribute to better sound overall.

Does anybody currently use a power cable for their Naim DAC/amplifier that is made by a brand other than Naim? And the result? 

I think there are two paths for you to choose from here.

1. Go to some dealers. Find one or two that are helpful, and that you feel comfortable with. Let them guide you through the buying/upgrade process, knowing that if you take something home, try it, and don't like it in your own system and room, you can return it and have a rethink.

2. Buy used gear. Save a lot of cash, but be prepared to accept that sometimes you will make the wrong choice, sell the gear and try again.

If you take the latter route, you may end up with a nice system for less money. Or you may end up in a perpetual cycle of upgrades, slightly underwhelming performance, and eventually, a reduced interest in music generally. I'm not saying that either route is right or wrong, but this forum is probably a poor substitute for a really good dealer.

DanT87 posted:

Does anybody currently use a power cable for their Naim DAC/amplifier that is made by a brand other than Naim? And the result? 

I really would not bother fiddling with cables. While they may make the sound different, there is no guarantee they will make it better. You've only just bought the system - why not just enjoy it? If you start thinking of changes immediately, you will never be happy with what you have. 

Dan,

Exploring options is good but Hungry Halibut is right if you're not using the pre-amp functionality on your Arcam then seriously consider replacing it with a NAP 200.   I think it will transform your listening far far more than any cable.

Regards,

Lindsay

DanT87 posted:

Does anybody currently use a power cable for their Naim DAC/amplifier that is made by a brand other than Naim? And the result? 

I have tried Audioquest NRG5 & 3 cables in the past but found the Naim supplied ones to sound better on both V1 & Qute.

Thank you all for the advice, I will calm down with the cables.

Quickly I am understanding the power amp option would have perhaps been a better choice along side the DAC V1 and in the future I see this as being my next step up. When I bought the DAC V1 I was unaware of the brand generally but loved the sound compared to my old dacmagic 100, so it seems I have stumbled on nice problem to have. 

My only reservation with regards to the 200 is, although it has been said above it should suit the 683s, I find advice on the 683 being quite a power hungry speaker, which was partly why I was attracted to the Arcam with it being 120w into 8ohm and from listening so far it drives them easily. 

That being said I'm a novice 70w from the 200 for all I know is plenty. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

The V1/A39 combination does sound rather odd. 

Before settling for my XS2, I demo'ed widely, including Arcam's A39. From this experience, I agree with HungryHalibut, and actually wonder whether your A39 and V1 might be pulling into different directions. The Naim and Arcam sound signatures are rather different, and I can't really picture much synergy between A39 and V1.  I feel you might have to decide between Arcam and Naim...