Power Amp - listening at low volume

Well, why not listen for yourself? Only you will kniw if it is worth it.

Slightly off topic, but if you're considering a 200, you could save yourself some cash by getting a good used non-DR version. The DR module in the 200 only powers a Naim preamp, and the 272 doesn't use it, so a good used 200 for around £1000 might seem attractive. Spend the money you save on some earplugs for the wife 

Or shoes / handbags for that matter...

I have listened to the 200 DR and waiting on the 250 DR as the dealer does not currently have one in stock.

I was curious to hear from forum members who may have heard both and have hundreds of hours of listening experience to draw upon.

The problem is that you need to find someone who has listened to both amps on a 272, preferably with your speakers, to make a fair assessment. I think it's fair to say that better amps perform better at low volumes, but that's just a generalisation.

The point of my post above is that it turns your £1500 price difference into a £2500 price difference. The next thing you know, you'll be able to afford an XPS!! 

I've had both a 200 and 250 (both non DR and DR versions) In my experience the better amp worked better at low volumes when using both IBLs and Isobariks. BUT...word of warning. I also find that the better the amp the less distortion means you can listen at higher volumes with less fatigue. In other words, the volume can creep up without you noticing which can result in the angry trip downstairs from the beloved spouse requesting that you turn it down, or off.

I have been looking at s/h although buying new, and the best I can afford and justify, may put the upgrade bug to bed for good.

Thanks MARKSNAIM. I more than familiar with those angry trips downstairs!

If you can afford it, get the 250DR. It's a wonderful amplifier. There is certainly little point in getting a 200DR to go with the 272, as others have said. So it's a choice of used 200 or new 250. Don't forget the exdem option too, which should save you 20% at least. 

In my opinion, the answer is a simple yes. The 250DR isn't really just about power. It has much more going on than that which the 200, bless it, just misses out on, such as extra resolution, scale, dynamic contrast, grip. Add the low volume level and you're in an even more compromised position. So put the two together and oddly the more expensive amp is the one to go for. 

In a similar vein, it would be good if you could stomach the DR version. The DR has brought so much extra control and nuance to the proceedings that I can't recommend it highly enough, and that low level control is what it's about in your case. The extra attributes of the DR over the original 250.2 (which was lovely, no question) are a more balanced presentation which therefore means you're less likely to feel that volume knob need in my view...though I do take what others here say about it being so damn good!

Finally, in terms of monetary justification that has to be your call, but bear in mind one thing. Naim recommends servicing your power amp every ten years. That £1500 is therefore spread over the 10 year period. That's the true cost here, and during that time you've enjoyed the benefits of a substantially better amplifier for £150/year, and in 10 years you get it serviced and effectively have the amp from new again. Only you can say if that's worth it to you but it's worth considering.

Frank.

Thanks Frank. My limited knowledge meant that I was unsure if greater power would elicit superior results at low level listening but your reply definitely clears that up.

I've not heard a Nap 200 but have been using a 250dr for a few months it is superb, low level listening I find is particularly good I think you'll find the extra over the 200 well worth it.

HI Green Man,

I have the NAP 200 (non-DR) and NAP 250 DR and I also have Harbeth, though the Super HL5 Plus and not the C7s. I have extensively compared both amps on the Harbeth, and yes, the 250 DR does improve on low level listening as it fills out more at the bottom end. The bass with 250 DR is fuller with more texture. Switching from the 250 DR to the 200 the bass sounds "inadequate" for the lack of a better term. It just sounds like something is missing at the bottom end. Though when you don't make the comparison, the NAP 200 is still a good amplifier and combines well with the NAC 282 that I have.

Since the bass fills out more with the NAP 250 DR, it helps with low level listening. I have a feeling that other speakers might benefit more with the NAP 250 DR. In other words, the difference between the NAP 200 and NAP 250 DR may be greater with other speakers than Harbeth speakers. Having said that, the NAP 250 DR is still a nice improvement over the NAP 200 (non-DR).

It is not only in the bass where the NAP 250 DR is superior. Someone has written a rather comprehensive review on the differences between the NAP 250 DR and NAP 200. In summary, the NAP 250 DR is more poised, sophisticated and matured amplifier than the NAP 200.

Hope that helps.

Separation between instruments, fairly similar. Timbre, instruments sound more realistic with the NAP 250 DR especially percussion and piano.

And thanks to Frank Abela. His earlier post motivated me to go for the NAP 250 DR sometime last year. I agree that power is not everything. The Harbeths are not power-hungry speakers and yet they managed to show tangible and real improvements with the NAP 250 DR. It is only the magnitude of difference between the NAP 200 and NAP 250 DR that is the question here, which only the listener can judge for himself whether the 250 DR is a worthwhile or very worthwhile upgrade from the NAP 200.

ryder. posted:

HI Green Man,

I have the NAP 200 (non-DR) and NAP 250 DR and I also have Harbeth, though the Super HL5 Plus and not the C7s. I have extensively compared both amps on the Harbeth, and yes, the 250 DR does improve on low level listening as it fills out more at the bottom end. The bass with 250 DR is fuller with more texture. Switching from the 250 DR to the 200 the bass sounds "inadequate" for the lack of a better term. It just sounds like something is missing at the bottom end. Though when you don't make the comparison, the NAP 200 is still a good amplifier and combines well with the NAC 282 that I have.

Since the bass fills out more with the NAP 250 DR, it helps with low level listening. I have a feeling that other speakers might benefit more with the NAP 250 DR. In other words, the difference between the NAP 200 and NAP 250 DR may be greater with other speakers than Harbeth speakers.

 

If you want to avoid an ear bashing from your wife, that could be what clinches it for the 200.

ChrisSU posted:

If you want to avoid an ear bashing from your wife, that could be what clinches it for the 200.

Another option might be to choose the lesser amp (and possibly also speakers with less bass) and add a sub, which can be turned down, or off, at night.

Green Man,

Welcome to the forum!

I have owned a 200, 250.2 and now 259DR.  I add my voice to those who advocate the 250DR.  It is way ahead on playing satisfying music at low volume, and worth every bit of the extra cost.  And, when family is away, it retains a significant musical advantage when you can crank it up.

Charlie

I went for a s/h 300, upgraded to DR, so not the same PSU, but electronically speaking it's a very similar amp to the 250DR.  I can say that the detail and presentation at low volume is superb.  The volume of the bass isn't any greater than lesser amps (i.e. the frequency response is equally flat), but the bass just sounds more 'positive' and controlled; it's just more reassuring and more noticeable in the room rather than actually being any louder and this is true of the 250DR as well.

Since bass is essentially a pressure effect, the try putting draught excluder round the living room door, and put a draught exclude 'sausage' at the base of the door.  If the bedroom is above the living room fit heavy underlay under the bedroom carpet - the weight is important, not just the acoustic absorption.  If ceiling to floor transmission is still a problem there are some 'sandwich' techniques that work well.

Why buy 200 when we all know that in a year of two you will change for a 250DR, get a nice pair of headphones as well that you can run with 272

Reading this forum will do that effect for sure

My rule is best that I can afford with our being silly, in long term is cheaper

I went for 300DR knowing that I will never buy 500, it is way too expensive for a hifi for my budget, but I buy lottery regularly

So if you can stretch then do, better value long term

Offcourse provided you can stretch or there will be a promotion in next year so you can wait