NDS with suitable switch and NAS

I'm a little lost - what exactly are you trying to achieve?

I advise to not do anything with the switch,  you will probably spend a lot of money & it will not sound any different.   Why are you using a 24 port switch, what else is connected.     

Replacing the WD with a QNAP is a good idea,  it will probably not sound different but it will bring more reliability & a better/faster OS,  also to run Asset UPnP software which is a good as it gets.    But why a TS 653 ??  thats a 6 bay ???   if its just for audio its a waste of money,  all you need is a 2 bay & a separate/remote back up.  & the WD will probably be perfect for that  

I'm using a Cisco 3560CX-12PC in my setup, basically the same as the 12TC but supporting Power over Ethernet. I definatly hear a differance compared to the old Linksys switch. I would say the resale value and ease of support would be better with the Cisco than the Brocade. I would be very surprised if those switches resulted in a differance in sound. (Full report due seperatly on the 3560cx expierience.)

Another vote for QNap wth Asset, very happy here with a HS-251 plus you get the benefit of YetiZone's Naim like icons if you wish.

If "playing" with switches makes you happy - "go for it."  But you're not going to find here a membership base that can tell you definitively how various switches compare to one another with respect to sound. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

I'm a little lost - what exactly are you trying to achieve?

Adam i am trying to but swicher and nas

Mike-B posted:

I advise to not do anything with the switch,  you will probably spend a lot of money & it will not sound any different.   Why are you using a 24 port switch, what else is connected.     

Replacing the WD with a QNAP is a good idea,  it will probably not sound different but it will bring more reliability & a better/faster OS,  also to run Asset UPnP software which is a good as it gets.    But why a TS 653 ??  thats a 6 bay ???   if its just for audio its a waste of money,  all you need is a 2 bay & a separate/remote back up.  & the WD will probably be perfect for that  

This 24 port is just for test. 

İ want ts 653 to make raid 5 and raid 0 together. 

[@mention:46760293749501952] is there any difference with poe in sound ?

Perhaps instead of trying to squeeze some ilusionary improvements with a switch and some fancy network cables, you should look in some more obvious places for improvements?

For starters NDS  was designed with a 555 PS in mind.

Evren,

1. Avoid PoE if at all possible. A fully Ethernet cabled network should be your goal if at all possible.

2. Can't advise as to network switches and whether they impact on SQ. I use Netgear GS series switches which are reliable in my network but other members report SQ improvements with Cisco switches.

3. The QNAP TS653 Is a good piece of kit but definitely OTT (over the top) if just used for streaming audio. It's really designed as a multimedia entertainment server which is why it has an HDMI output and a remote control. 

4. Indeed instead of a single 6 bay NAS, I'd be inclined to purchase 2 X 2 bay NAS drives to maintain a more reliable backup regime together with your existing WD NAS.  Raid is not a viable backup system. I personally have 3 networked QNAP NAS drives with duplicate/backup data but also have a series of offline WD MBL drives to which I make a further back up once a month . A case of belt and braces and a clean pair of underpants you could say.

Have you tried removing the power conditioner? Naim amps are generally happier without them.

Hi Evran, sorry late to the thread... I have played around with switches and I find they do often make a difference to the sound to connected Ethernet audio equipment. Where the difference is positive or not seems to vary on the individual.

I have found the Cisco Catalyst 2960 switches that support PTP prefereable to many consumer type switches. Both the 3560 and 2960 you mention are Catalysts and support PTP so worth a try.

My theory is the higher quality synchronisation clocks on the physical layer for the support of PTP result in less sync jitter on the physical connection. Less jitter would result in less coupled intermodulated noise potentially affecting the audio device.

[@mention:17757776931519664] there is nothing wrong with PoE, it simply won't be enabled on the NDS segment. I think you are getting mixed up with so called 'ethernet' over powerline which is not real ethernet and should be avoided where performance and RFI considerations are important.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Perhaps instead of trying to squeeze some ilusionary improvements with a switch and some fancy network cables, you should look in some more obvious places for improvements?

For starters NDS  was designed with a 555 PS in mind.

of course you are 100 percent true and ı am waiting 555 PS I will buy it in a few months. 

ChrisSU posted:

Have you tried removing the power conditioner? Naim amps are generally happier without them.

yeap  I try with them and without them but power conditioner works well with me. also ı try with solus and aquarıus and did not happy with them. 

[@mention:17757776931519664] for QNAP TS653 ı want to use for streaming but also can use for other back up and movies. but ı am not sure about that. ı mean ı am not sure about using for streaming  only or with other staff. will it effect in performance ?

[@mention:1566878603876589] i will try Both the 3560 and 2960 in the conditions to see the result. also ı want to try that 3560 is layer 3 and i can directly connect fiber internet to that  and eliminate modem. technically it will be good because less hardware is better but ı am confused to use 3560 like modem ? 

Evren Akar posted:

[@mention:46760293749501952] is there any difference with poe in sound ?

No discernable differance, not least because Power-over-Etherenet is only supplied if the end-point requests it, so in an audio setup it just manifests itself as a larger transformer within the switch itself.

To confirm and clarify some of the other posts on this topic PoE is a way for a switch to provide power to an end-point, typically an IP Phone or WiFi Access Point. It is not Ethernet-over-Mains which my expeirience suggests, as others have said, should be avoided at all costs!

I have some further testing to do to be sure but I'm in leaning towards S-in-S regarding the PTP. There is something inherant in the design of commercial/industrial switches which causes this differance. I hve tried two differant switches, a third to come, and run with varying configs to load up the processor and nothing has changed from that initial differance compared to the consumer Linksys. Full notes to come in a week or two on the serpate thread.

Evren Akar posted:

[@mention:17757776931519664] for QNAP TS653 ı want to use for streaming but also can use for other back up and movies. but ı am not sure about that. ı mean ı am not sure about using for streaming  only or with other staff. will it effect in performance ?

[@mention:1566878603876589] i will try Both the 3560 and 2960 in the conditions to see the result. also ı want to try that 3560 is layer 3 and i can directly connect fiber internet to that  and eliminate modem. technically it will be good because less hardware is better but ı am confused to use 3560 like modem ? 

Evren, be careful with this.

The 3560 does support Layer 3 switching but the standard IP Base software licence does not support NAT. To do this you would need to upgrade it to the IP Services software which costs, roughly, the price of a Super Lumina interconnect! You would be better off leaving the public IP demarcation on either the ISPs router or on a seperate small Cisco branch router assuming you are technical enough to manage that. PErsonally, I'd run the switch as you internal network and connect that to you ISPs router.

For the QNap I'd recommend something small just for Asset and audio and then use a second NAS or USB drive for backup and other file services.

[@mention:46760293749501952] waiting for your notes. 

I will not use any IP phone or WİFİ access so poe is not necessary for me. ı just want to use switch for my purpose and all close other functions. 

[@mention:46760293749501952] ı have IP Services software for NAT. in this case eliminating ISPs router is better i think ? just ı am not sure in eliminating router is good for performance or not ? 

Evren, form my testing, loading up switch services such as SNMP, DHCP, etc etc make no differance to the sound on a Cisco switch. So I would not expect adding NAT to make any differance either. Personally I would still leave the ISPs router in place as a demarcation point and something they know and can test aganst in case of issues. That said, I can understand your view of removing kit to keep it simple. Toss of a coin if your ISP will still support the direct connection to the switch.

rjfk posted:

Evren Akar posted:

[@mention:17757776931519664] for QNAP TS653 ı want to use for streaming but also can use for other back up and movies. but ı am not sure about that. ı mean ı am not sure about using for streaming  only or with other staff. will it effect in performance ?

[@mention:1566878603876589] i will try Both the 3560 and 2960 in the conditions to see the result. also ı want to try that 3560 is layer 3 and i can directly connect fiber internet to that  and eliminate modem. technically it will be good because less hardware is better but ı am confused to use 3560 like modem ? 

Evren, be careful with this.

The 3560 does support Layer 3 switching but the standard IP Base software licence does not support NAT. To do this you would need to upgrade it to the IP Services software which costs, roughly, the price of a Super Lumina interconnect! You would be better off leaving the public IP demarcation on either the ISPs router or on a seperate small Cisco branch router assuming you are technical enough to manage that. PErsonally, I'd run the switch as you internal network and connect that to you ISPs router.

For the QNap I'd recommend something small just for Asset and audio and then use a second NAS or USB drive for backup and other file services.

Evren - I agree with the advice above - although the 3650 is a layer 3 switch - which simply means a switch that performs routing functions - for you to use it set up your home network to the internet via a  PPPoverEthernet modem you will need it to support PPP as well as PAT (port address translation) and you will need to undertake some IOS configuration scripting on the switch. You will need to ensure the software build on the switch has these licences enabled for the functions required - and according to [@mention:46760293749501952] above the basic licence build for this switch doesn't support NAT/PAT. You find in these devices the hardware is relatively cheap - its the software licences that can cost....

Therefore by all means use this switch for internal routing on your home network if you want to - or even simply use it as a regular layer 2 switch - but for edge to the internet - I would use your ISP router or even an Apple Airport device connected  to a PPPoE  modem ... IF you really want to use a Cisco device then I'd look at the 800 series small edge routers - but again you will need to configure the scripting to work - so only really worthwhile if you have a specific reason to do that.

Simon

Evren,

Apologies for my confusion of PoE and EoP and thank you, Simon, for your clarification. I own a QNAP TS653A using 4 x 4TB WD red NAS Drives. I don't use the Media Centre functions and bought it to provide backup for my ever expanding music library.

Whilst I can't comment on SQ impact of running music and video streaming at the same time, I would have thought that its spec (1.6GHz quad core Intel Celeron processor and 4GB RAM) should be able to manage multi-tasking with no loss of performance. Having said this, there is a comment on the Amazon uk site (admittedly about the 8 bay TS853A) suggesting that the server has issues running Plex as a media server.

Evren Akar posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Have you tried removing the power conditioner? Naim amps are generally happier without them.

yeap  I try with them and without them but power conditioner works well with me. also ı try with solus and aquarıus and did not happy with them. 

My very limited experience with a mains conditioner was not good, so I just ditched the whole idea, in the light of many other posts on this forum saying that they generally don't work well with Naim amps. Interesting to hear that you have good results with one, though. Just shows that it's good to keep an open mind on these things.

[@mention:36201736949470193]  i use it with xps-2. My amp is mastersound evolution 845 reference and i try several times and like the sound with evo3 polaris power conditioner.  

Evren Akar posted:

[@mention:36201736949470193]  i use it with xps-2. My amp is mastersound evolution 845 reference and i try several times and like the sound with evo3 polaris power conditioner.  

So you're not using a Naim amp....could be why you hear a benefit from the conditioner?

FWIW I would wait a few more weeks and consider going Core SPDIF before spending much more money on the NAS streaming route.

Chag -