Nap300 dr or keep nap250 dr

Zackwater posted:

You guys are really good and a great knowledge base, I just wished I had known about this form BEFORE I bought my system.   I "only" paid $15k for the sopra 3's, those I am keeping.  The other stuff can come and go as needed, but next year.   Stereo budget is shot this year (a new wife would cost way too much).   So I guess if I do go with the 300, the only downside is money.  It won't sound "worse" with my current components than the 250, I suppose.   As for the turntable, it was just an idea, I know I'll have $10k in it before I know it.  

The 300DR won't be any worse than the 250DR obviously, and if you're keeping the Sopra's look upon it as a first step to upgrading the rest of your system. A word of caution, if you don't have a vinyl collection use the future funds to upgrade your front end  sources instead.

p.s $15K for the Sopra's does seem a bit of a bargain.

One more vote for the 300DR.  A great amplifier, really powerful, controlled and detailed.  The soundstage is huge, sometimes it could be overwhelming if you crank up the volume.  My system 272/XPS DR/300 DR/Sopra 2 sounds fantastic.  I am using TIDAL a lot since the 272 is such a good streamer.  With Sopra 3 the 300DR should do an even better job.  I have never heard the 500DR but I cannot imagine needing more than the 300DR.  Of course, any system could be improved though you may have a dismissed return on your investment.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Zackwater posted:

I live in the middle of nowhere, 6 hours to the nearest decent audio shop.  There is no such thing as demo anything.  I'm stuck with what I have, BUT I can upgrade the 250dr to a 300dr if it would make a difference.  

Why does 6hr to a shop stop you? It may make it inconvenient, and not worth the hassle if buying something cheap, but certainly worth ensuring your big bucks are worth it. A year ago I wanted to listen to different speakers, so I took a 4 hour ferry journey followed by 4.5 hour drive to one place, then in the evening drove 4.5 hours to another place, stayed in a hotel overnight and first thing had another audition, then after lunch a 2.5 hour drive to another place, and finally late that evening another 2 hour drive and overnight ferry. And I lugged my old speakers and my amp with me, to have full and proper comparisons. 

And you may find a dealer willing to send the amp by courier for audition, if you pay the full cost upfront as a deposit. However, that all said, the risk upgrading the amp from 250 to 350 would seem pretty minor, unlike changing speakers.

I've already suggested that, but he didn't bite. 

Hi Zackwater, I have had the 250dr , which I can concur with all the comments, an exceptional black box.

I had a very good dealer offer to trade up to 300dr, rest assured you will not be disappointed, to get straight to the point,  you get more of everything , they will have your sopras singing at low and high volume,  as for cables,  many on this forum love the SL, but for me I prefer the TQ ultra blacks ....but that's just personal choice,  either way you will be a happy man....

As for mullet comments,  just take it with a pinch of salt, that terminology went out with the Ark!!!! 

Ps welcome to the Forum 

Thanks again for all the great advise, I'm going to trade up to the 300, I've made worse decisions.   

Of course, the bigger question may be whether the bigger benefit would come from upgrading the power amp or the source. One option could be to consider a better DAC, and if you were to go for, say, the Chord HugoTT, initially using the 270's rendered digital output you to feed it before in the future maybe considering something else. If you don't have analogue you could even try the TT direct into the power amp, and if that suits you you wouldn't need to use a the 270's preamp. Then if you were to go for local file streaming rather than purely Tidal, something like the Uniti Core as a store/renderer (player) to feed the DAC.

Zackwater posted:

Thanks again for all the great advise, I'm going to trade up to the 300, I've made worse decisions.   

is your trade for a new 300DR

Zackwater posted:

Thanks again for all the great advise, I'm going to trade up to the 300, I've made worse decisions.   

Let us know how you get on with the300DR. All the best; hope it works out for you.

Yes, it is a new 300dr.  

Zackwater posted:

Yes, it is a new 300dr.  

you will notice right out the box the 300 synergy over the 250 on the Sopra No3

Zackwater,

I am sure you will appreciate the refinement the 300DR will bring to your system.  Once in place, you may or may not be satisfied with the "amount" of bass at low listening levels - but you will likely be pleased with the "quality" improvement in the bass notes of music.  Do consider experimenting with speaker placement, as that will affect the balance of bass frequencies when distance to wall(s) change.

Charlie

Emre posted:

Get the 300dr, it is an end game power amp for mortals..

 

I do not agree with this statement there is no limit  to this game, a nap 300 is a fantastic product but no end game, even from here may also begin a journey to discover other borders of listening pleasure. There are so many engineers like those of naim have spent a lifetime to delight fans around the world.

Nelson Pass and Dan D'Agostino (for example) have created many wonders working hard 

As an ex-user of Chrome Bumper 250 and now (non DR) 300, I think what the 300 really brings to the party is increased grip and control, plus a sense of greater power and wider presentation. It is a lovely amp all round, benefitting enormously from the segregation of power supply and circuits from the front end.

Zackwater posted:

Yes, it is a new 300dr.  

Great. Now get saving for the 552

There's always the edit option. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

There's always the edit option. 

Thanks, as I was trying to say--"It never ends".  

If you can afford it there can only be one disadvantage with the 300 over the 250 and that is you'll need another shelf.

Or a 2nd-hand 300 rather than new 300DR. Save you a fortune and still a huge upgrade, though different presentation to DR.  Lots available. Many prefer this. Use the savings towards 552 in the future?!. 

Nobody will contest that the 272 is a very well achieved and successful product. But it remains at 282 and NDX levels at best. I would then tend to believe that it really takes the 252 and NDS/555DR, or NDX/nDAC/555PS for that matter, to get the most out of the 300-DR. In other terms you might want to consider upgrading the front end before the already very good 250-DR.  

Chag -

The 272/XPSDR/250DR is a super, super amplifier, as the many owners (and those of us who have auditioned) will attest.

The 272/XPSDR/300DR is just an even more musical, capable & enjoyable amplifier to have at the heart of your system.

And the Sopra 3 really needs a 300DR to begin to show what it is capable of.

So, taken in isolation, the 250DR to 300DR swap makes a lot of sense.  Good move.

Naturally, there are other options, such as replacing the XPSDR with a 555DR to squeeze the last drop of potential out of the pre-amp.  Or get a better pre-amp, though I don't say which one as this is a minefield of conflicting opinions in itself. Or get a top flight streamer or dac.  These are all very valid alternatives.

At least with a NAP300DR, the OP can relax and enjoy the music, confident that he has a power amp that is a better match for his speakers than the 250DR.

Best regards, FT

zackwater, I have Focal Electra 1038s in a bigger room than yours. I drive them with Olive 135s which replaced a chrome bumper 250.  The 135s improved all aspects of the listening experience over the 250. Therefore one can extrapolate that moving to a 300 would likely be a worthwhile upgrade. 

I inquired with Focal dealer as to whether the Sopra 2 would be worthwhile upgrade over my 1038s- he said that for my huge room the Sopra 3s would be the way to go. Haven't heard either of the Sopras- mainly because I have no desire to spend the $ at this time. If I were in the market for a new speaker would have started with the Sopra 3s-  that said my 1038s sound great.  Sometimes you just have to draw the line. David

I was a few months ago in a demo with a friend who had a 272 and had settled on Sopra 2 speakers and we had used the 250DR with them up until that point in the demo and it all sounded great, except there was this sense the system sounding at times a little on edge and bright with some music, so he asked to hear the 300DR. It was so much better with the Sopra 2 that it was obvious that the system sounded happy and confident with all music and the brightness edge was gone, as well as there being far better bass and mid-range quality, so the extra money was found and the 300DR was purchased.

He is using the 272 stand-alone with the internal supply and although we demoed the XPS on it - he preferred the uplift the 300DR had over what the XPS did - funds were limited to either the XPS or 300DR at that point and I agree with his choice in that system that the 300DR made the system work musically and put the listener at ease to enjoy the music. With other speakers that possibly would not have been the right choice, but here it was.

I will say that these DR Power Amps are a real phenomena in the uplift they bring to a system. It reveals just how much the Power Amp has to give in defining the performance. My 500DR experience has been amazing, so obtaining the best Amp you can afford makes a lot of sense.

DB.

By way of contrast I listened to the Sopra 2 powered by a 250Dr and a 300 Dr back to back and was super impressed with the 250dr Sopra combination - I didn't find it bright at all.  In that room and with that system (I think a 282 rather than 272) I couldn't hear sufficient improvement from the 300dr to justify the extra cost.  That's not to say it's not there and that in a different room, or with more time and in a more relaxed environment it wouldn't be worth every penny, just that I didn't hear it that day.  As usual audition it to death.

If I were to replace one other component, i.e. the 272 or the xps, which one should I replace first?

dayjay posted:

By way of contrast I listened to the Sopra 2 powered by a 250Dr and a 300 Dr back to back and was super impressed with the 250dr Sopra combination - I didn't find it bright at all.  In that room and with that system (I think a 282 rather than 272) I couldn't hear sufficient improvement from the 300dr to justify the extra cost.  That's not to say it's not there and that in a different room, or with more time and in a more relaxed environment it wouldn't be worth every penny, just that I didn't hear it that day.  As usual audition it to death.

 the sopra 3 sound way different