Nap300 dr or keep nap250 dr

Zackwater posted:

If I were to replace one other component, i.e. the 272 or the xps, which one should I replace first?

trade XPS for a 555PS and get the 300DR

Unfortunately a personal demo is the only way to be sure. Applying the usual rules of 'source-first' do start to reach their limits after a certain level of performance is reached - especially with some demanding large high-performance speakers that seem to like a better amp in a system containing them.

At the same demo we also demoed the old Kudos Titan speaker which my friend was set to buy and they sounded fine with the 250DR - no performance niggles at all. But he had to scratch that curiosity itch and hear the Sopra 2 - and even I was surprised at how much better they were in that system, even with the slight bright edge which I though was the speaker until the 300DR was substituted.

The 250DR into Titans would probably have been the purchase - but it is hard to un-hear something you can actually afford and the 300DR Sopra 2 was chosen. I remained silent in the demo while my friend made all the calls - he does not upgrade often with more than 10 years between such changes, so he wanted something very special for many years ahead and he obtained that I think.

DB.

Zackwater posted:

If I were to replace one other component, i.e. the 272 or the xps, which one should I replace first?

since you plan to get into vinyl (and don't listen to the naysayers -- it's very worthwhile), i'd say swap the XPS for a Supercap and get a 252 and a Chord Hugo DAC.

What if I did this1) trade the 250 dr for the 300dr (2) trade the xps dr for the 555ps dr (3) keep the 272 (4) keep the sopra 3's.   

Quoth the venerable N. Dynamite, "Flippin Sweet!"

Zackwater posted:

What if I did this1) trade the 250 dr for the 300dr (2) trade the xps dr for the 555ps dr (3) keep the 272 (4) keep the sopra 3's.   

You would be much poorer.

You would have a better balanced system.

Music would sound fabulous!!!

OMG, this is such a disease.  A little more information; next year I'm adding a second system to a lake house.  I'm thinking about half as much as my primary system.   What if I (1) keep the 250 dr (2) keep the xps dr (3) have terrible or no internet so either cd or turntable  (4) buy Sopra 2's as my speaker   With this in mind I'm thinking about also buying right now  the Rega rp6 turntable for my primary system with plans to move it to the lake house next year with my secondary system.   Then if I really like vinyl buy a Rega rp10 next spring for my primary system.   

Blimey! this gets more complex by the hour !  Sounds like your bank balance is going to take a serious battering in the near future. 

Zackwater posted:

(3) have terrible or no internet so either cd or turntable  (4) buy Sopra 2's as my speaker   With this in mind I'm thinking about also buying right now  the Rega rp6 turntable for my primary system with plans to move it to the lake house next year with my secondary system.   Then if I really like vinyl buy a Rega rp10 next spring for my primary system.  

Just put a NAS into the Lake House -- together with your 272 and 250DR (possibly with the XPS -- right away or later depending on monies).  And then build a "proper" primary system that matches your Sopra No. 3... That sounds like a lot of fun to me!

Jackwater

As SheffieldGraham says this is getting more complex by the hour!

I stress that this is a personal view and others may disagree but If you do not have a significant vinyl collection I would not get into vinyl now. There are many reasons for my saying this but primarily the cost of putting together a respectable vinyl collection without resorting to what can be a difficult second hand market added to the additional cost of setting up a vinyl system good enough to do justice to the rest of your system is problematic . Moreover, and acknowledging the internet constraints that you mention then I would look as far as possible to replicate the front end source in both your system locations. Given that Internet streaming is not possible in the second system then I would look to building up a music 'digital database' which by its very nature could be used at both sites. This can be done by both ripping and downloading to either a NAS or a Naim Core or Unitiserve solution, I don't know what the state of play is in the US but there are inevitably a lot of used Unitiserves on the market in the UK because  of the Core release and this may be a cost effective route. There are many examples of how to do what I suggest in various posts on the site.

So my interim solution would be to upgrade to 300DR for your main system and keep the 250DR for the second system. I would hold fire on spending on a 555PS for now as you will need funds for the future - not least for a preamp for one of the systems. I would then look to move the 272 to the second system to play your CD rips/downloads and upgrade the streamer in the first system so the initial aim would be:

System 1

NDX or NDS 

XPS DR

282 or 252 

Hi Cap DR/Supercap DR

Sopra 3

Second options for streamer preamp/ power supply are if funding is available

System 2

272

250DR

Sopra 2

You could then consider putting a 555PS on the NDX/NDS and moving the XPS DR to the second system

Camlan posted:

Jackwater

As SheffieldGraham says this is getting more complex by the hour!

I stress that this is a personal view and others may disagree but If you do not have a significant vinyl collection I would not get into vinyl now. There are many reasons for my saying this but primarily the cost of putting together a respectable vinyl collection without resorting to what can be a difficult second hand market added to the additional cost of setting up a vinyl system good enough to do justice to the rest of your system is problematic . Moreover, and acknowledging the internet constraints that you mention then I would look as far as possible to replicate the front end source in both your system locations. Given that Internet streaming is not possible in the second system then I would look to building up a music 'digital database' which by its very nature could be used at both sites. This can be done by both ripping and downloading to either a NAS or a Naim Core or Unitiserve solution, I don't know what the state of play is in the US but there are inevitably a lot of used Unitiserves on the market in the UK because  of the Core release and this may be a cost effective route. There are many examples of how to do what I suggest in various posts on the site.

So my interim solution would be to upgrade to 300DR for your main system and keep the 250DR for the second system. I would hold fire on spending on a 555PS for now as you will need funds for the future - not least for a preamp for one of the systems. I would then look to move the 272 to the second system to play your CD rips/downloads and upgrade the streamer in the first system so the initial aim would be:

System 1

NDX or NDS 

XPS DR

282 or 252 

Hi Cap DR/Supercap DR

Sopra 3

Second options for streamer preamp/ power supply are if funding is available

System 2

272

250DR

Sopra 2

You could then consider putting a 555PS on the NDX/NDS and moving the XPS DR to the second system

System 3

272/555DR/300DR/Sopra 3 

I totally agree with vinly,  it is an endless pit, then you will ask how about superline,how about supercap,oooo 4/5 cables to Upgrade! 

Hi Zackwater 

Can I ask what your restraints are for low volume listening?  

In a previous semi detached house I lived in I seriously considered sound proofing the lounge so that I could listen at my preferred volume.  As things turned out I didn't stay long enough to make this worthwhile. 

I know it is difficult and expensive to do properly but if you are going to be spending that sort of money it may be worth combining this with some acoustic room treatments to get the best out of whatever components you end up with. It may give you scope to raise the volume enough to get what you are looking for?? 

Stuart

stuart posted:

Hi Zackwater 

Can I ask what your restraints are for low volume listening?  

In a previous semi detached house I lived in I seriously considered sound proofing the lounge so that I could listen at my preferred volume.  As things turned out I didn't stay long enough to make this worthwhile. 

I know it is difficult and expensive to do properly but if you are going to be spending that sort of money it may be worth combining this with some acoustic room treatments to get the best out of whatever components you end up with. It may give you scope to raise the volume enough to get what you are looking for?? 

Stuart

This system is in the main room of my wife's house (the garage is my only real room).  She doesn't appreciate fine music nor enjoys loud music.  Can't really turn it into a "music" room.  There is not a potential room to turn into one either.  I'm sorta stuck. I'm going to upgrade the 250dr to a 300dr, at the same time upgrade the xps dr to a 555psdr.  Surely, that will be a nice improvement.  It's nice now, I just want it a little better.  The total cost will be more than my first home I bought in 1989.  Next year I may add a turntable or upgrade the 272, but this year I'm done.   

Zackwater posted:

stuart posted:

Hi Zackwater 

Can I ask what your restraints are for low volume listening?  

In a previous semi detached house I lived in I seriously considered sound proofing the lounge so that I could listen at my preferred volume.  As things turned out I didn't stay long enough to make this worthwhile. 

I know it is difficult and expensive to do properly but if you are going to be spending that sort of money it may be worth combining this with some acoustic room treatments to get the best out of whatever components you end up with. It may give you scope to raise the volume enough to get what you are looking for?? 

Stuart

This system is in the main room of my wife's house (the garage is my only real room).  She doesn't appreciate fine music nor enjoys loud music.  Can't really turn it into a "music" room.  There is not a potential room to turn into one either.  I'm sorta stuck. I'm going to upgrade the 250dr to a 300dr, at the same time upgrade the xps dr to a 555psdr.  Surely, that will be a nice improvement.  It's nice now, I just want it a little better.  The total cost will be more than my first home I bought in 1989.  Next year I may add a turntable or upgrade the 272, but this year I'm done.   

Sounds like a perfect case for headphones - abandon speakers completely.

Buy a Muso for the lake house and use the spare money to convert your garage into a dedicated listening room?? 

Can't covert the garage, live in condo's with rules against parking on the street.   I could always move, my neighbors would love that.  

Innocent Bystander posted:

Zackwater posted:

Can't covert the garage, live in condo's with rules against parking on the street.   I could always move, my neighbors would love that.  

So headphones it is, then: keep the wife and neighbours happy while listening to whatever you want as loudly as you want, or as quietly as you want with reduced interference from other sounds. Apart from lack of feel of low notes, which you won't really get with listening at low levels anyway, the only downside is lack of social listening, other than tgeccompromise of you having more than one pair (and open-back design).  Really good headphones are cheaper than really good speakers, and in the most are less demanding on amp. Then just keep the speakers as they are for occasional parties or annoying the neighbours or whatever.

Right I have tried various combinations... and I can definitely confirm you will get the most improvement by changing the 272 psu .... preferably to a 555 hopefully dr. I have a Nap500dr and it is fantastic... and immediately apparent over the 250dr. But the 250dr is still very good and I felt that the psu upgrade made a really big difference, to me it was jaw dropping and improved...  everything... it transformed the 272. I suggest buying sh and getting a 555ps .. for around 1800-2000 .... you will not be disappointed. Then later get a nap300dr.....  Hope this helps...been there done it.....

.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Zackwater posted:

stuart posted:

Hi Zackwater 

Can I ask what your restraints are for low volume listening?  

In a previous semi detached house I lived in I seriously considered sound proofing the lounge so that I could listen at my preferred volume.  As things turned out I didn't stay long enough to make this worthwhile. 

I know it is difficult and expensive to do properly but if you are going to be spending that sort of money it may be worth combining this with some acoustic room treatments to get the best out of whatever components you end up with. It may give you scope to raise the volume enough to get what you are looking for?? 

Stuart

This system is in the main room of my wife's house (the garage is my only real room).  She doesn't appreciate fine music nor enjoys loud music.  Can't really turn it into a "music" room.  There is not a potential room to turn into one either.  I'm sorta stuck. I'm going to upgrade the 250dr to a 300dr, at the same time upgrade the xps dr to a 555psdr.  Surely, that will be a nice improvement.  It's nice now, I just want it a little better.  The total cost will be more than my first home I bought in 1989.  Next year I may add a turntable or upgrade the 272, but this year I'm done.   

Sounds like a perfect case for headphones - abandon speakers completely.

Never ever do this. Consider your Naim gear as an expensive and important last stronghold before fun in life comes to an end.

Music needs to travel in order to give the right experience and you need to feel the music both mentally and physically - headphones don't do that. They only give some itching feeling on your head when the vibrations are too intense. Young people who not has come yet to an age of wisdom and deafness have headphones.

My advice is to start telling her that you want a grand piano. Ensure your neighbours hear this discussion. Then settle on a modest Nap 300 and the PS upgrades to the source / streamer.

Thanks to everyone for all the great advise.  This was my final decision, the check is in the mail (1)  upgraded the 250dr to a 300dr (2) upgraded the xps to a 555. (3) kept the sopra 3's (4) kept the 272 (5) bought a rega rp8 turntable. Now I'm done until next year.  Thanks again to everyone. 

Ardbeg10y posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Zackwater posted:

stuart posted:

Hi Zackwater 

Can I ask what your restraints are for low volume listening?  

In a previous semi detached house I lived in I seriously considered sound proofing the lounge so that I could listen at my preferred volume.  As things turned out I didn't stay long enough to make this worthwhile. 

I know it is difficult and expensive to do properly but if you are going to be spending that sort of money it may be worth combining this with some acoustic room treatments to get the best out of whatever components you end up with. It may give you scope to raise the volume enough to get what you are looking for?? 

Stuart

This system is in the main room of my wife's house (the garage is my only real room).  She doesn't appreciate fine music nor enjoys loud music.  Can't really turn it into a "music" room.  There is not a potential room to turn into one either.  I'm sorta stuck. I'm going to upgrade the 250dr to a 300dr, at the same time upgrade the xps dr to a 555psdr.  Surely, that will be a nice improvement.  It's nice now, I just want it a little better.  The total cost will be more than my first home I bought in 1989.  Next year I may add a turntable or upgrade the 272, but this year I'm done.   

Sounds like a perfect case for headphones - abandon speakers completely.

Never ever do this. Consider your Naim gear as an expensive and important last stronghold before fun in life comes to an end.

Music needs to travel in order to give the right experience and you need to feel the music both mentally and physically - headphones don't do that. They only give some itching feeling on your head when the vibrations are too intense. Young people who not has come yet to an age of wisdom and deafness have headphones.

My advice is to start telling her that you want a grand piano. Ensure your neighbours hear this discussion. Then settle on a modest Nap 300 and the PS upgrades to the source / streamer.

Whilst in general  I agree re headphones vs speakers, and do not use headphones myself other than when travelling, too quiet listening through speakers can be less than satisfying, in which event headphones could be better - and I am led to believe that a decent headphone setup  can be good these days...

But the piano approach is a good one! 

However, the OP's decision has now been made, and involves neither headphones nor piano!

Zackwater posted:

Thanks to everyone for all the great advise.  This was my final decision, the check is in the mail (1)  upgraded the 250dr to a 300dr (2) upgraded the xps to a 555. (3) kept the sopra 3's (4) kept the 272 (5) bought a rega rp8 turntable. Now I'm done until next year.  Thanks again to everyone. 

Your welcome

When does the search for a new property begin?  ��

Zackwater posted:

Thanks to everyone for all the great advise.  This was my final decision, the check is in the mail (1)  upgraded the 250dr to a 300dr (2) upgraded the xps to a 555. (3) kept the sopra 3's (4) kept the 272 (5) bought a rega rp8 turntable. Now I'm done until next year.  Thanks again to everyone. 

err excuse me, but which cartridge/phono amp/power supply did you buy with the rp8?

sheffieldgraham posted:

Zackwater posted:

Thanks to everyone for all the great advise.  This was my final decision, the check is in the mail (1)  upgraded the 250dr to a 300dr (2) upgraded the xps to a 555. (3) kept the sopra 3's (4) kept the 272 (5) bought a rega rp8 turntable. Now I'm done until next year.  Thanks again to everyone. 

err excuse me, but which cartridge/phono amp/power supply did you buy with the rp8?

....and have you budgeted for enough extra Fraim shelves and an extra dedicated mains circuit for all that lot too!?

Zackwater posted:

Thanks to everyone for all the great advise.  This was my final decision, the check is in the mail (1)  upgraded the 250dr to a 300dr (2) upgraded the xps to a 555. (3) kept the sopra 3's (4) kept the 272 (5) bought a rega rp8 turntable. Now I'm done until next year.  Thanks again to everyone. 

Wow, at least your wallet is easier to carry around now.

keeping the 272 is wise at least for the time being and you are going to love the 300dr. It's a lovely amp.