Nap300 dr or keep nap250 dr

Richard Choong posted:

Everyone, 

I read this topic with great interest because I am considering if I should upgrade to a 300DR. So forgive me if kind of hijack this thread...So this is my situation. As you can see from my profile, I am currently have a 250.2. This is used to drive a pair of Diablos. I do near field listening. My listening position is about 2.5-3m from the speakers which are less than 30cm from the wall. I like to listen at lower volumes. What I have noticed is when I moved from a 272 pre amp to a 282, that at lower volumes I am losing some detail which I didn't notice with the 272. Probably because with the 282, it tends to be louder so I lower the volume more. 

I have been told that if I use a 300DR, I will get more detail at lower volume (don't know if that's true). I was intending to do a DR upgrade on my 250.2 but now I am toying with the possibility of just getting a 300DR. The cost is obviously higher. Given that I prefer to listen at lower volumes is upgrading to the 300DR worth it? Or given my circumstances, a upgrade of my amp to 250DR would be sufficient? I also have the option of adding a Super Lumina interconnect (which I won't do if I upgrade to a 300DR.

Any thoughts would be welcome! Thank you!!

I have not heard the 282,maybe the N272 is just simply better at low volume,I notice Richard has an xpsdr,so if that was on the 272,it might outperform a 282 with a high cap dr.Just speculation of course,but I am very happy with my 272 (bare) at low volume.

Richard,

In my experience, an olive Supercap made an enormous improvement to my 282 over (2) Hicaps - at modest expense.  The upgrade from 250.2 to 250DR was profound, and greatly enhanced the musical performance at low volume (as also did the upgrade from XPS to 555PSDR on my nDAC).  If you can afford a 300DR, I am sure that would sound wonderful, but I agree with previous advice to put some version of Supercap on the 282 first.  A 2982, SC, 250Dr should improve performance at all volume levels.

Charlie

sheffieldgraham posted:

A SuperCap was one of the most noticeable upgrades I have made. If you do ever decide to upgrade after the 300DR give it a try. You may be surprised.

When I was new to Naim I just knew I liked the sound. I didn't really understand or appreciate at that time how a power supply could make such a difference - I had a prejudiced view that the quality of the sound was overwhelmingly determined by the signal processing part of the box. That all changed when I put a Supercap on my 282 in place of the Hicap - VERY impressive, and a bit of education for me.

Will99 posted:

sheffieldgraham posted:

A SuperCap was one of the most noticeable upgrades I have made. If you do ever decide to upgrade after the 300DR give it a try. You may be surprised.

When I was new to Naim I just knew I liked the sound. I didn't really understand or appreciate at that time how a power supply could make such a difference - I had a prejudiced view that the quality of the sound was overwhelmingly determined by the signal processing part of the box. That all changed when I put a Supercap on my 282 in place of the Hicap - VERY impressive, and a bit of education for me.

Think it's high time to go demo the super cap vs the hi cap....

As I was spending another sleepless night thing about stereo stuff, I was wondering about NEXT YEAR'S UPGRADE.   The 272 is my weakest current link, so if I'm correct if I replace the 272 then I will also be required to buy a preamp?  My system is: 300dr amp, 555ps, 272 streamer/preamp, rp8 Rega turntable, aria stager, Sopra 3 speakers.  The 552 preamp is too much for my wallet $34,999 retail--I'm not in that price market so it's out. 

Zackwater posted:

As I was spending another sleepless night thing about stereo stuff, I was wondering about NEXT YEAR'S UPGRADE.   The 272 is my weakest current link, so if I'm correct if I replace the 272 then I will also be required to buy a preamp?  My system is: 300dr amp, 555ps, 272 streamer/preamp, rp8 Rega turntable, aria stager, Sopra 3 speakers.  The 552 preamp is too much for my wallet $34,999 retail--I'm not in that price market so it's out. 

Perhaps a 252 or 282. Then add to the mix an NDX....

And don't forget a Hicap with a 282 or a Supercap with a 252.

I think better advice would be to try to stop worrying about gear for a couple of years and enjoy what you have. It's an amazing system as it is. And if you still want more further down the line, things could well have moved on technology-wise a bit by then.

Dave***t posted:

And don't forget a Hicap with a 282 or a Supercap with a 252.

I think better advice would be to try to stop worrying about gear for a couple of years and enjoy what you have. It's an amazing system as it is. And if you still want more further down the line, things could well have moved on technology-wise a bit by then.

The second part of your advise is way too logical.   

True, and I can sympathise with that sentiment. But you don't even know what your current kit sounds like at its best yet. Even aside from running in etc,  there's a wealth of little tweaks to direct your attention to in the meantime, just have a look back through some of Darke Bear's posts, for example. Lots of lovely nerding to be done without any new boxes!

Hi if I were changing the 272,555.....I would probably audition the chord dave ..... and drive amp with its preamp.... you could sell your 272 and 555 and put it towards dave.....

Zackwater posted:

As I was spending another sleepless night thing about stereo stuff, I was wondering about NEXT YEAR'S UPGRADE.   The 272 is my weakest current link, so if I'm correct if I replace the 272 then I will also be required to buy a preamp?  My system is: 300dr amp, 555ps, 272 streamer/preamp, rp8 Rega turntable, aria stager, Sopra 3 speakers.  The 552 preamp is too much for my wallet $34,999 retail--I'm not in that price market so it's out. 

Never say out.Give you an example,a few years ago ( about 6) a new 252 was too much for my wallet,and went the second hand route. All my black boxes were bought that way except the speakers.So a used 552 could be your upgrade now never mind about NEXT YEAR.Hope you find one so no more sleepless nights.

ayap1

Zackwater posted:

As I was spending another sleepless night thing about stereo stuff, I was wondering about NEXT YEAR'S UPGRADE.   The 272 is my weakest current link, so if I'm correct if I replace the 272 then I will also be required to buy a preamp?  My system is: 300dr amp, 555ps, 272 streamer/preamp, rp8 Rega turntable, aria stager, Sopra 3 speakers.  The 552 preamp is too much for my wallet $34,999 retail--I'm not in that price market so it's out. 

What you have is so good I might well wake up at night to go and play some more music

That sums it up really. I used to have a 552 and now I'm slumming it with a 272. But I enjoy the music just as much. Just get a good stand, mains, wires and network and get the best out of what you've got. All the time you dream of something else you can't enjoy what you have. Been there, done that. 

Zackwater posted:

As I was spending another sleepless night thing about stereo stuff, I was wondering about NEXT YEAR'S UPGRADE.   The 272 is my weakest current link, so if I'm correct if I replace the 272 then I will also be required to buy a preamp?  My system is: 300dr amp, 555ps, 272 streamer/preamp, rp8 Rega turntable, aria stager, Sopra 3 speakers.  The 552 preamp is too much for my wallet $34,999 retail--I'm not in that price market so it's out. 

Like others already said. Just stop being concerned and just enjoy what you have. Most people would dream of what you have already. Even when you own the 5 series you are still having potential to grow, but at the end on all levels in Naim you will already have a huge level of enjoyment.

I'm retiring from work end this year and notwithstanding a little cable optimisation I have no upgrade desires  one of the things I'm most looking forward is being able to exploit my music collection as and when I want.  

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's beyond me why people buy these mullet systems, but having experienced the difference between a 250.2.and a 300, though I've never heard a 300DR, I think going for the bigger amplifier is a very good idea. I'd also think about a 555PS to get the best out of the 272. But ultimately the 272 will hold things back. 

I totally understand it. There comes that moment where you have a balanced system. You have enough money for a part upgrade. Perhaps an affordable second hand unit has come on the scene which would advance the cause, but not necessarily in the most logical or orthodox fashion, so you feel obliged to move on. My 250.2 was a huge leap forward, but I could have gone 82 if one had been around. Annoyingly one came on the scene just after I'd bought the NAP. Sod's law or Divine Intervention? Who knows? But I am saving madly and trying to convince the Prof..

Loki posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's beyond me why people buy these mullet systems, but having experienced the difference between a 250.2.and a 300, though I've never heard a 300DR, I think going for the bigger amplifier is a very good idea. I'd also think about a 555PS to get the best out of the 272. But ultimately the 272 will hold things back. 

I totally understand it. There comes that moment where you have a balanced system. You have enough money for a part upgrade. Perhaps an affordable second hand unit has come on the scene which would advance the cause, but not necessarily in the most logical or orthodox fashion, so you feel obliged to move on. My 250.2 was a huge leap forward, but I could have gone 82 if one had been around. Annoyingly one came on the scene just after I'd bought the NAP. Sod's law or Divine Intervention? Who knows? But I am saving madly and trying to convince the Prof..

I would like to conduct a Blind Fold A-B:

272/XPSDR/250DR/Fraim/Full Loom

Well Balanced

Vs

252/SCDR/300/300PSDR/Fraim/Full Loom

Well Balanced

That would be Fun!

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

Loki posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's beyond me why people buy these mullet systems, but having experienced the difference between a 250.2.and a 300, though I've never heard a 300DR, I think going for the bigger amplifier is a very good idea. I'd also think about a 555PS to get the best out of the 272. But ultimately the 272 will hold things back. 

I totally understand it. There comes that moment where you have a balanced system. You have enough money for a part upgrade. Perhaps an affordable second hand unit has come on the scene which would advance the cause, but not necessarily in the most logical or orthodox fashion, so you feel obliged to move on. My 250.2 was a huge leap forward, but I could have gone 82 if one had been around. Annoyingly one came on the scene just after I'd bought the NAP. Sod's law or Divine Intervention? Who knows? But I am saving madly and trying to convince the Prof..

I would like to conduct a Blind Fold A-B:

272/XPSDR/250DR/Fraim/Full Loom

Well Balanced

Vs

252/SCDR/300/300PSDR/Fraim/Full Loom

Well Balanced

That would be Fun!

Allante93!

You might want to make it a fair fight by giving the latter system a source, otherwise even my cloth ears might be able to tell them apart rather rapidly  

Is the Fraimlite good enough or is the Fraim twice as nice?  

the N272 with a 555PS-DR and a 300-DR or 500 is tits with a set of Sopra No3 period...those speakers were made fully with Naim/Focal unlike the Sopra 1 or 2     

Zackwater posted:

Is the Fraimlite good enough or is the Fraim twice as nice?  

Well, ask Naim:

"For entry-level Naim Audio systems, our FraimLite features the same tripod-style configuration, carefully optimised shelf spacing and high-quality material construction of our reference-quality Fraim.

It retains the cup-and-cone interface system used by its bigger brother too, but omits the dual layer base and ball-bearing decoupled glass shelf. Reference Fraim levels can be incorporated into the same system as FraimLite so that you can upgrade to our top of the range equipment support on a level-by-level basis.""

Just add some cups and balls!

Allante93!

Zackwater posted:

Is the Fraimlite good enough or is the Fraim twice as nice?  

Fraim multiple niceness.

300DR is certainly a better amp, but I would invest elsewhere. The 250DR is stunning on it's own and I am a big fan of fewer not more boxes. If you are always not stressing the amp and listening at high levels the improvement is likely marginal. If you had hard to drive speakers at difficult loads, the 300 would be a great way to go, but it really does not sound like it is a great VFM in your use case.

DUPREE posted:

300DR is certainly a better amp, but I would invest elsewhere. The 250DR is stunning on it's own and I am a big fan of fewer not more boxes. If you are always not stressing the amp and listening at high levels the improvement is likely marginal. If you had hard to drive speakers at difficult loads, the 300 would be a great way to go, but it really does not sound like it is a great VFM in your use case.

I'm not an engineer, but I'm sure, Simon and a host of other engineers on the Forum can help me out on this:

Many years ago, when I first ventured into the World of Hi Fi, a gentleman explained, if one wanted a 10 watt amp to double it's volume, one would need to increase it's power output by 10 fold.

This was late 80's, when I fail in love with the Isobariks, which was being driven by a little ugly power amp, by the Naim of Naim.

I was sold, 7K for a pair of speakers being driven by a 30 watts amp!

Point being I agree, that the 2 box 300, should out perform the single box 250, but volume wise!

Nap 200--+ 70 watts

 Nap 250--+ 80 watts

 Nap 300--+90 watts

Looks like a Statement could could sound twice as loudoud as a Nap 200 @ 740 watts.

You get the point, 10 watts, difference between the 250DR & 300DR!

Just some thoughts, please correct me, if my thought process is flawed, nothing like information!

Allante93!

Allante93, I'm absolutely no expert on the differences between the 250 and 300, but to what I know, the 300 is actively cooled by a fan and therefore it will stay stable much longer than the 250. So, when the volume is turned up, the 300 can continue where the 250 shuts down.