Nap300 dr or keep nap250 dr

Ardbeg10y posted:

Allante93, I'm absolutely no expert on the differences between the 250 and 300, but to what I know, the 300 is actively cooled by a fan and therefore it will stay stable much longer than the 250. So, when the volume is turned up, the 300 can continue where the 250 shuts down.

That makes two of us. Maybe the experts will tune in later!

But to your point, that's a nice feature, incorporated into the NAP 300, after all, that's a lot of power!

Wonder if the Statement, has that feature.LOL!

250/250.2/250DR --+7K

135's Mono Blocks!!!

D Agostino Mono Blocks:

300 watts--+42K for the pair

300/300DR--+13K

500/500DR @ 140 watts--+30K

Even the 500, has been known to shut down, with its increased casing and 2 box configuration!

Now the Statement! 

Massive one box configuration, Mono Blocks.

180K for the pair!

As DUPREE, pointed out, the 300 is a great amp, but not the best VFM, in the OP's case.

I concur!

Allante93!

I'm not an electronics expert either, but isn't the dB scale logarithmic, and an increase in 3dB would require a doubling of the power. Hence to my mind the power output vs SQ performance has more to do with the circuit design rather than the power output of the amp. This is evident in the commensurate design complexities of the Naim amps. 200 non regulated>250 regulated> 300regulated, separated power supply> 500 regulated, separate bridged supply(whatever that is). Statement (God knows) Little  to do with the power output.

I suspect someone will correct me on some of my comments.

Been reading this thread with great interest. I have an opportunity to purchase a brand new NAP 300 DR at a very reasonable price and been seriously thinking of making this a reality. In my case, i'm currently using a 272/XPS DR/200 DR/Kudos Super 10s. I am not interested in changing the 272/XPS and speakers. I would only swap the NAP 200 for a 300. If and when a new range/upgraded network streamer were to come to market to replace the 272N, I might consider it.

As for the a stand, mains, wires and network, I am good with a three tiered Isoblue shelf, a dedicated AC line, a couple of Powerlines, NAC A5 and stock interconnects. Again, there is no immediate need or desire to make a change in this area.

One potential downside is that I will need to stack two boxes on the top shelf of the Isoblue stand. Maybe both power supplies, then streamer and then amp ? Not sure.  

More importantly, I am curious if you think this move is overkill? I expect it will bring another level of performance, clarity, impact and all the goodness of what a 300 offers. Budget aside, would I be better off with a 250 DR given there is no change speakers and front end. I cannot demo the 300, so I would have to take a leap of faith.

I am trying to convince myself that this will be the last amp I purchase regardless of what speakers and source component comes next and from what others have mentioned on other threads, the Kudos Super 10's would be a great match for the NAP 300.

rightcoastants posted:

Been reading this thread with great interest. I have an opportunity to purchase a brand new NAP 300 DR at a very reasonable price and been seriously thinking of making this a reality. In my case, i'm currently using a 272/XPS DR/200 DR/Kudos Super 10s. I am not interested in changing the 272/XPS and speakers. I would only swap the NAP 200 for a 300. If and when a new range/upgraded network streamer were to come to market to replace the 272N, I might consider it.

As for the a stand, mains, wires and network, I am good with a three tiered Isoblue shelf, a dedicated AC line, a couple of Powerlines, NAC A5 and stock interconnects. Again, there is no immediate need or desire to make a change in this area.

One potential downside is that I will need to stack two boxes on the top shelf of the Isoblue stand. Maybe both power supplies, then streamer and then amp ? Not sure.  

More importantly, I am curious if you think this move is overkill? I expect it will bring another level of performance, clarity, impact and all the goodness of what a 300 offers. Budget aside, would I be better off with a 250 DR given there is no change speakers and front end. I cannot demo the 300, so I would have to take a leap of faith.

I am trying to convince myself that this will be the last amp I purchase regardless of what speakers and source component comes next and from what others have mentioned on other threads, the Kudos Super 10's would be a great match for the NAP 300.

 

 

 

 

The way I look at it is if you can afford it, then it can't be worse and it may be a lot better. One word of caution--the upgrading never ends, it's a disease.  

Zackwater posted:

 The way I look at it is if you can afford it, then it can't be worse and it may be a lot better. One word of caution--the upgrading never ends, it's a disease.   

 

I know this too well. Some 10 years ago, I had a couple of 135s, a 52, Hicaps, CDX, Isobariks, a fully tricked out Linn LP 12 on a Fraim.

The 300 is better than you think, and the difference vs. the 250 is sizable.  I played my s/h 300 with a 552 and it sounded wonderful together.   When I got the 500, it was a clear upgrade but less than I expected.  Only when I got the 500DR did I recall some of the 300 magic. 

Based on my prior experience with the 300, If you can get a buy on an 300DR, do it by all means.  It may be the last amp you buy, given the size of the next step.  It would be a comfortable stopping point.  The 300DR will pay a generous return on your investment in preamp, cables, and stands.  Over time, you will be happy to have the Fraim and whatever upgrades you can afford.

I have never bought anything subject to a home demo because the nearest Naim dealer to me is several hundred miles away.   Just trust your budget and buy the nicest set up you can afford.   The 300DR can anchor your system for many years.

No argument here, once again, VFM in this case!

And 90 watts vs 80 watts, that's all!

I like Arch's approach, on Systems:

Left Stack: (top to bottom)

nDAC

CD5XS

Rega RP10 PSU

Middle Stack:

Rega RP10

282

Superline

Right Stack:

Supercap DR (Superline)

250.2 (non-DR)

Supercap (282), non-DR

Not pictured, S400 with NAC5 (shown going into wall, speakers are 90-degrees to the gear, on the opposite side of the room.

Mostly PowerLined, except NAPSC, and CD5XS which has a Cryo'd A/V Options cable.

The power distribution device is an Audience PDC. The power outlets are FIM (First in Music) feed by separate 20AMP circuits. The little black discs are VibraPods left over from a previous system and used here to lift power cables off the floor. We'll see how long they stay there.

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Check  it out, just Geogious, the wiring and thoughtprocess!

Beautiful, I feel this approach is equal if not better than a black box upgrade!

Allante93!

Skip posted:

The 300 is better than you think, and the difference vs. the 250 is sizable.  I played my s/h 300 with a 552 and it sounded wonderful together.   When I got the 500, it was a clear upgrade but less than I expected.  Only when I got the 500DR did I recall some of the 300 magic. 

Based on my prior experience with the 300, If you can get a buy on an 300DR, do it by all means.  It may be the last amp you buy, given the size of the next step.  It would be a comfortable stopping point.  The 300DR will pay a generous return on your investment in preamp, cables, and stands.  Over time, you will be happy to have the Fraim and whatever upgrades you can afford.

I have never bought anything subject to a home demo because the nearest Naim dealer to me is several hundred miles away.   Just trust your budget and buy the nicest set up you can afford.   The 300DR can anchor your system for many years.

I must agree after a demo last month my new 300dr was installed last week the difference over the 250dr it replaced is quite staggering.

Make no mistake the 250dr is a superb amplifier but the 300dr is simply awesome undoubtedly the best VFM upgrade I've made it's that good.

what is better in 300DR compared to 250 DR?

rightcoastants posted:

Been reading this thread with great interest. I have an opportunity to purchase a brand new NAP 300 DR at a very reasonable price and been seriously thinking of making this a reality. In my case, i'm currently using a 272/XPS DR/200 DR/Kudos Super 10s. I am not interested in changing the 272/XPS and speakers. I would only swap the NAP 200 for a 300. If and when a new range/upgraded network streamer were to come to market to replace the 272N, I might consider it.

As for the a stand, mains, wires and network, I am good with a three tiered Isoblue shelf, a dedicated AC line, a couple of Powerlines, NAC A5 and stock interconnects. Again, there is no immediate need or desire to make a change in this area.

One potential downside is that I will need to stack two boxes on the top shelf of the Isoblue stand. Maybe both power supplies, then streamer and then amp ? Not sure.  

More importantly, I am curious if you think this move is overkill? I expect it will bring another level of performance, clarity, impact and all the goodness of what a 300 offers. Budget aside, would I be better off with a 250 DR given there is no change speakers and front end. I cannot demo the 300, so I would have to take a leap of faith.

I am trying to convince myself that this will be the last amp I purchase regardless of what speakers and source component comes next and from what others have mentioned on other threads, the Kudos Super 10's would be a great match for the NAP 300.

Having listened to a 272/300DR into a little pair of Kudos X2, the extra grip and control the 300 had over the speakers was very obvious - and that was comparing it to a 250DR, never mind a 200. So I think you will hear a substantial difference. Note that I listened without an XPS, and I did feel that the sound was a little untamed. I guess this was the amp exposing the weakness of the source, so it's a system that I avoided, but with the XPS in place, things will be different.

Regarding your rack, why on earth would you spend all that money on boxes and not buy an extra shelf. Sandwiching a streamer/preamp in between those hefty PSUs both above and below makes no sense. 

ChrisSU posted:

rightcoastants posted:

Been reading this thread with great interest. I have an opportunity to purchase a brand new NAP 300 DR at a very reasonable price and been seriously thinking of making this a reality. In my case, i'm currently using a 272/XPS DR/200 DR/Kudos Super 10s. I am not interested in changing the 272/XPS and speakers. I would only swap the NAP 200 for a 300. If and when a new range/upgraded network streamer were to come to market to replace the 272N, I might consider it.

As for the a stand, mains, wires and network, I am good with a three tiered Isoblue shelf, a dedicated AC line, a couple of Powerlines, NAC A5 and stock interconnects. Again, there is no immediate need or desire to make a change in this area.

One potential downside is that I will need to stack two boxes on the top shelf of the Isoblue stand. Maybe both power supplies, then streamer and then amp ? Not sure.  

More importantly, I am curious if you think this move is overkill? I expect it will bring another level of performance, clarity, impact and all the goodness of what a 300 offers. Budget aside, would I be better off with a 250 DR given there is no change speakers and front end. I cannot demo the 300, so I would have to take a leap of faith.

I am trying to convince myself that this will be the last amp I purchase regardless of what speakers and source component comes next and from what others have mentioned on other threads, the Kudos Super 10's would be a great match for the NAP 300.

Having listened to a 272/300DR into a little pair of Kudos X2, the extra grip and control the 300 had over the speakers was very obvious - and that was comparing it to a 250DR, never mind a 200. So I think you will hear a substantial difference. Note that I listened without an XPS, and I did feel that the sound was a little untamed. I guess this was the amp exposing the weakness of the source, so it's a system that I avoided, but with the XPS in place, things will be different.

Regarding your rack, why on earth would you spend all that money on boxes and not buy an extra shelf. Sandwiching a streamer/preamp in between those hefty PSUs both above and below makes no sense. 

The stand I'm purchasing is the regular Fraim, not the fraimlite.  It will be the base and 3 shelves.  The components I have are (1) 300dr-2boxes, (2) 555 (3) 272 (4) Rega rp8 and the aria phono stager.  Surely that will work. That's 6 holes plus the two places on the top for the turntable and stager.  Oh plus $7k worth of speaker cable upgrades and other bs cables.  So I'm done (until next year when I go preamp and new streamer source and replace the 272!). 

ChrisSU posted:

Having listened to a 272/300DR into a little pair of Kudos X2, the extra grip and control the 300 had over the speakers was very obvious - and that was comparing it to a 250DR, never mind a 200. So I think you will hear a substantial difference. Note that I listened without an XPS, and I did feel that the sound was a little untamed. I guess this was the amp exposing the weakness of the source, so it's a system that I avoided, but with the XPS in place, things will be different.

Regarding your rack, why on earth would you spend all that money on boxes and not buy an extra shelf. Sandwiching a streamer/preamp in between those hefty PSUs both above and below makes no sense. 

Appreciate the insight. Makes me want to go for it. 

In regards to my existing audio rack, the Isoblue stand I have is an older model and no longer being manufactured so getting the same finish is not possible. Also, seeing i am on the other side of the pond, this particular brand is just not available. It would have to be shipped to the great white north from the UK. It may not be an ideal solution right now but down the road, I could consider swapping my existing stand for something with 4 shelves. 

Zackwater posted:

 

ChrisSU posted:

rightcoastants posted:

Been reading this thread with great interest. I have an opportunity to purchase a brand new NAP 300 DR at a very reasonable price and been seriously thinking of making this a reality. In my case, i'm currently using a 272/XPS DR/200 DR/Kudos Super 10s. I am not interested in changing the 272/XPS and speakers. I would only swap the NAP 200 for a 300. If and when a new range/upgraded network streamer were to come to market to replace the 272N, I might consider it.

As for the a stand, mains, wires and network, I am good with a three tiered Isoblue shelf, a dedicated AC line, a couple of Powerlines, NAC A5 and stock interconnects. Again, there is no immediate need or desire to make a change in this area.

One potential downside is that I will need to stack two boxes on the top shelf of the Isoblue stand. Maybe both power supplies, then streamer and then amp ? Not sure.  

More importantly, I am curious if you think this move is overkill? I expect it will bring another level of performance, clarity, impact and all the goodness of what a 300 offers. Budget aside, would I be better off with a 250 DR given there is no change speakers and front end. I cannot demo the 300, so I would have to take a leap of faith.

I am trying to convince myself that this will be the last amp I purchase regardless of what speakers and source component comes next and from what others have mentioned on other threads, the Kudos Super 10's would be a great match for the NAP 300.

Having listened to a 272/300DR into a little pair of Kudos X2, the extra grip and control the 300 had over the speakers was very obvious - and that was comparing it to a 250DR, never mind a 200. So I think you will hear a substantial difference. Note that I listened without an XPS, and I did feel that the sound was a little untamed. I guess this was the amp exposing the weakness of the source, so it's a system that I avoided, but with the XPS in place, things will be different.

Regarding your rack, why on earth would you spend all that money on boxes and not buy an extra shelf. Sandwiching a streamer/preamp in between those hefty PSUs both above and below makes no sense. 

The stand I'm purchasing is the regular Fraim, not the fraimlite.  It will be the base and 3 shelves.  The components I have are (1) 300dr-2boxes, (2) 555 (3) 272 (4) Rega rp8 and the aria phono stager.  Surely that will work. That's 6 holes plus the two places on the top for the turntable and stager.  Oh plus $7k worth of speaker cable upgrades and other bs cables.  So I'm done (until next year when I go preamp and new streamer source and replace the 272!). 

Sorry, we were into a thread hijack!

My maths is pretty shaky, but I take it you're getting two sets of Fraim for that lot to fit on it?

ChrisSU posted:

Zackwater posted:

 

ChrisSU posted:

rightcoastants posted:

Been reading this thread with great interest. I have an opportunity to purchase a brand new NAP 300 DR at a very reasonable price and been seriously thinking of making this a reality. In my case, i'm currently using a 272/XPS DR/200 DR/Kudos Super 10s. I am not interested in changing the 272/XPS and speakers. I would only swap the NAP 200 for a 300. If and when a new range/upgraded network streamer were to come to market to replace the 272N, I might consider it.

As for the a stand, mains, wires and network, I am good with a three tiered Isoblue shelf, a dedicated AC line, a couple of Powerlines, NAC A5 and stock interconnects. Again, there is no immediate need or desire to make a change in this area.

One potential downside is that I will need to stack two boxes on the top shelf of the Isoblue stand. Maybe both power supplies, then streamer and then amp ? Not sure.  

More importantly, I am curious if you think this move is overkill? I expect it will bring another level of performance, clarity, impact and all the goodness of what a 300 offers. Budget aside, would I be better off with a 250 DR given there is no change speakers and front end. I cannot demo the 300, so I would have to take a leap of faith.

I am trying to convince myself that this will be the last amp I purchase regardless of what speakers and source component comes next and from what others have mentioned on other threads, the Kudos Super 10's would be a great match for the NAP 300.

Having listened to a 272/300DR into a little pair of Kudos X2, the extra grip and control the 300 had over the speakers was very obvious - and that was comparing it to a 250DR, never mind a 200. So I think you will hear a substantial difference. Note that I listened without an XPS, and I did feel that the sound was a little untamed. I guess this was the amp exposing the weakness of the source, so it's a system that I avoided, but with the XPS in place, things will be different.

Regarding your rack, why on earth would you spend all that money on boxes and not buy an extra shelf. Sandwiching a streamer/preamp in between those hefty PSUs both above and below makes no sense. 

The stand I'm purchasing is the regular Fraim, not the fraimlite.  It will be the base and 3 shelves.  The components I have are (1) 300dr-2boxes, (2) 555 (3) 272 (4) Rega rp8 and the aria phono stager.  Surely that will work. That's 6 holes plus the two places on the top for the turntable and stager.  Oh plus $7k worth of speaker cable upgrades and other bs cables.  So I'm done (until next year when I go preamp and new streamer source and replace the 272!). 

Sorry, we were into a thread hijack!

My maths is pretty shaky, but I take it you're getting two sets of Fraim for that lot to fit on it?

Yes, I am getting two sets.  Room placement is under a tv mounted on the wall.  This project started out with a $15-20k budget.  Now I have that much in cables and the stand.  It's a crazy sickness.  But finally, now I am really done (at least till next year).  

What was it you were saying about a source upgrade? 

ChrisSU posted:

What was it you were saying about a source upgrade? 

Next year, period!  My wife has already threaten to leave me after the wiring upgrade.  Plus it cost me a trip to the jewelry store today (I was too busy into the stereo stuff I forgot about Valentine's Day).  

Zackwater posted:

ChrisSU posted:

What was it you were saying about a source upgrade? 

Next year, period!  My wife has already threaten to leave me after the wiring upgrade.  Plus it cost me a trip to the jewelry store today (I was too busy into the stereo stuff I forgot about Valentine's Day).  

Mega bucks in the hi-fi, and forgetting Valentine's Day ? Your wife must love you ! Are you sure a 12-month cool down period is enough before your next investment ?

Allante93 posted:

DUPREE posted:

300DR is certainly a better amp, but I would invest elsewhere. The 250DR is stunning on it's own and I am a big fan of fewer not more boxes. If you are always not stressing the amp and listening at high levels the improvement is likely marginal. If you had hard to drive speakers at difficult loads, the 300 would be a great way to go, but it really does not sound like it is a great VFM in your use case.

I'm not an engineer, but I'm sure, Simon and a host of other engineers on the Forum can help me out on this:

Many years ago, when I first ventured into the World of Hi Fi, a gentleman explained, if one wanted a 10 watt amp to double it's volume, one would need to increase it's power output by 10 fold.

This was late 80's, when I fail in love with the Isobariks, which was being driven by a little ugly power amp, by the Naim of Naim.

I was sold, 7K for a pair of speakers being driven by a 30 watts amp!

Point being I agree, that the 2 box 300, should out perform the single box 250, but volume wise!

Nap 200--+ 70 watts

 Nap 250--+ 80 watts

 Nap 300--+90 watts

Looks like a Statement could could sound twice as loudoud as a Nap 200 @ 740 watts.

You get the point, 10 watts, difference between the 250DR & 300DR!

Just some thoughts, please correct me, if my thought process is flawed, nothing like information!

Allante93!

Where are the Engineers, when you need them!

The advantage the 300DR would have over the 250DR, when driving the OP's Speakers.

 In short:

80 Naim DR Watts

 Vs

90 Naim DR Watts

 And the ten fold increase in power, to make a system sound twice as loud.

Calling all Engineers!

 Allante93!

You don't need engineers, as you have ears. 

Allante93 posted: Where are the Engineers, when you need them!

They are busy shoveling coal, blowing steam whistles and piloting trains. These are of little use in your listening room.

Watts is not the way to judge Naim amps

Supernait 2 and 250 DR are rated almost identical watts

But one is a regulated amp, the other is capacitor smoothed.

joerand posted:

Allante93 posted: Where are the Engineers, when you need them!

They are busy shoveling coal, blowing steam whistles and piloting trains. These are of little use in your listening room.

They must be making America great again.

Moving the New Frontier Wall

Hungryhalibut posted:

You don't need engineers, as you have ears. 

Ah, you mean Enginears?

analogmusic posted:

what is better in 300DR compared to 250 DR?

Calling all Engineers!

analogmusic!

Well anallog, first off the 2 box configuration, allows greater distance between the power supply, and the electrical wiring layout, which not only reduces the possibility of the Dreaded Hum, which is associated with Naims large torridial transformers, but also cleans up the outgoing signal associated with The New DR Technology. Furthermore, the....

EXCUSE ME, I'M NOT AN ENGINEAR! LOL!!!

Allante93!