Dynaudio Confidence C2 and SuperUniti

Callas on the Dynaudio owners forum uses a Focus 260 with Uniti2 and is very happy.

I also tried it with a DAC V1/NAP 100, I would return the arcam and get the Nait XS2.

Dynaudio and Naim work very well together, so you won't ever regret buying the Nait XS2. Rock (AC/DC, Metallica) sounds awesome through my Naim/Dynaudio focus 260

Another thing : if you Focus 260 is brand new, it will require at least 500 hundred hour of playing time to run in

Amused posted:

Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum. I found this thread as the most logical one to post my question.

I recently purchased a beautiful pair of Dynaudio Focus 260 floorstanders in piano black finish. The amp I am using at the moment is a new Arcam A29, the DAC is a Chord Mojo and the source is my iMac with Foobar2000 (or my iPhone 7 via Onkyo HF player).

The weakest link in this setup is apparently the amp. I have a chance to return the amp and get a Naim XS2 (the 70w version) as the dealer I bought the amp from is also an authorized Naim dealer. I am also expecting delivery of new factory terminated Chord Epic Reference speaker cables as well as Chord Epic Analogue Tuned Aray interconnect.

Will the XS2 be up to the task of powering the Dyn's? I have no experience at all with Naim amps, nor have I heard one with Dyns before. Apparently I can't take my speakers to the dealer in order to audition the amp. 

What my Arcam setup is lacking at the moment is midrange - it sounds thin and bright, almost nonexistent. While the highs do sound very sweet and seductive, and the bass is so-so, the mids are killing my enjoyment. I am virtually embarrassed to play a rock song (let alone something heavier in sound), as it sounds pretty ridiculous through a pair of pretty expensive speakers.

So, is the XS2 the right way to go, or should I go for something else?

Many thanks!

Welcome.

As a former Arcam (A85) and Dyna Contour 1.8 (forerunner of the 260) user I hope I can help.

I had the A85 and bought the 1.8s and whilst it was okay all I can say is that I identify with everything you say.    Now whilst I have now moved on to different speakers I love Dynas but you need to remember 2 things.  First they need space rear and side - at least .5m behind preferably a 1m and at least the same along the sides - lots of soft furnishings help as well.  Second, they like strong/articulate amplification - not just power but staging and grip so the pre-amp is just as if not more important.

With the 1.8s it took a 282/HC/200 to really bring them alive but really I was not completely satisfied until I had the 250DR.  I hear all this about them working with a Uniti 2 - "work" they will but as you are experiencing you need a lot more than that for musical enjoyment, enrichment etc.   Similarly a friend of mine paired a CD5XS/Nait XS (superb integrated) with Focus 160s and excellent as the 160s are he eventually ended up moving them on for a pair of Neat Motive SX2s which integrated far more easily into his lounge and truly synergised with the XS2  I spend hours listening to his system it sounds great.  

So the advice on hear that you must get a home demo is spot on.  However, from first hand experience I really don't think the XS is the answer - not if you want that really rich musical experience we all wish for, a SN2 MIGHT hit the spot but the 260 like the 1.8 before is a demanding but with the right electronics truly  excellent speaker.  And in piano black gorgeous.

I'm sorry for being brutally honest but it comes from experience.  Good luck.

Regards,

Lindsay

PS:  Chord cables are excellent but wont solve this.

It's such a shame when people end up buying these incompatible systems from dealers happy to take their money but seemingly unable or unwilling to give sensible guidance. You simply don't put a £1,000 Arcam with demanding £3,000 Dynaudio speakers. Nor do you use £150 a metre speaker cables with said amplifier. And then a DAC running off a laptop. The minimum to get those speakers going sounds like a Supernait, from what Lindsay says above. Cancelling the speaker wires and getting Naim A5 would free up a lot of money, and that tuned aray thing could be avoided too at this stage. Get the best amp you can and worry about wires later.

Strat with all due respect contour is not focus and you never owned focus 260

Analog,

No I didn't but the 260 was a newer refined version of the 1.8 and I did use them extensively when early demming of Naim amps and I note you have exactly the amp configuration I suggest to drive yours

Lindsay

I think we overestimate the capability of the speaker. Maybe It's too much amp for this speaker. 

I tried them in a 552/500 and noted little improvement from my 282/250. Yes I could hear the quality of 552/500 but the speaker was holding back. Source was chord Dave 

HH - "DAC running off a laptop" isn't just any DAC.

We're talking about Chord Mojo here (younger brother of the Hugo), and I run mine off laptop sometimes, it sounds great to my ears. It doesn't have galvanic isolation, so best to use the laptop on battery and have a good USB cable, but with MAC with a software like audirvana, great music.

Yes, Mojo is said to be virtually as good as Hugo, subject to whether or not its different output stage makes a difference in the particular implementation, so potentially well capable of feeding very good systems, bearing in mind that many people who have compared prefer Hugo on NDX to its own DAC.

However the computer source may be open to question: Computers functioning as servers/renderers can be VERY variable, ranging from bad to excellent: By way of example, Audirvana as a renderer, generally regarded as one of, if not the, best, can be up there with the very best of sources when run on, say, a Mac Mini dedicated and fully optimised including isolation of RF. Other implementations of Audirvana can vary according to how set up and how the computer is optimised, while sound quality can also vary between different rendering software packages.  (N.B. running a Macbook on batteries doesn't necessarily remove RF interference if the connection to tne DAC is electrical as the comperter internals will generate RF, while using the computer's own soundcard to convert to optical to provide that isolation is subject to the limitations of the soundcard.) 

Amused doesn't indicate if his/her Mac with Foobar 2000 is dedicated, or how it is connected etc, so it is unclear how near or far from optimum it is, while I know nothing about the Onkyo player. That said, I rather doubt that is the cause of the poor sound Amused is hearing, which I suspect could be the speakers themselves not suiting her/him, and/or their interation with the room, and/or if the amp isn't up to controlling them adequately. It would do no harm to play around with speaker and listening positions, maybe quite drastically, while seeking another amp to try - it could make all the difference. Perhaps a description of the room size, general furnishing state and speaker and listening positions might enable others on the forum make possible suggestions to try. Personally I think the cables and racks are trivial, maybe for fine tuning not a fundamental problem unless ther is something very wrong with what you have, except that if you try a Naim power amp you should take Naim's advice re cables and try it with NACA5 aypt the same rime as they are effectively part of the output stage design. Same comments apply to the OP.

Exactly. I run my Mojo off a PC, but not just any PC - it's an iMac with a 3.2 Ghz i7 processor and 16GB of fast RAM. The USB cable is a Chord C-USB. 

So what is the conclusion - is the XS2 up to the task for the Focus 260? Please note my room is some 30 m2, and I don't like playing loud music. The speakers have enough room both to the sides and the back.

I have read many reviews stating that the XS2 sounds warmer and more musical when compared to the Supernait 2 which is more powerful, but also more detailed and a bit "clinical". Are the additional 10W of power in the SN2 that much important to justify €1600 of price difference?

I adore the speakers, and sometimes use equilisers within Foobar or JRiver to fill in the empty midrange that the Arcam fails to produce. So it's not speakers - it's the amp.

EDIT: Sometimes I use my Samsung K8500 UHD player (when I listen to CD's) or my Sony KD-65ZD9 (when I watch TV or play music off YouTube) as a source, connected via Toslink to the Mojo. The end result is the same - the midrange is missing.

Have you tried much playing with speaker and listening positions? What are your room dimensions, rather than area, and where are the speakers and listening positions - and where else have you tried?

Some time when you have a chance I suggest have a go with Audirvana (a free trial is available), including closing down everything else on the computer, and setting a dedicated USB bus. Whether or not you use Audirvana, if you don't use one already then it could be worth using an RF isolator between Mac and Mojo - When I had Hugo I found Gustard U12 very good, which is inexpensive. Other people use USB Regen, though apparently it can take two to do the job fully. And running on battery power is the cream on the cake.

Isnt there a rule not to hijack someones thread? Perhaps an admin could clear things up.

Thank you.

Amused, I know you're new here so perhaps unsure of the correct protocol.  However, this is the OP's thread and your post might be construed as a "thread-jack".  

I'm not entirely sure why you didn't start your own thread here.  In fact, I'm going to ask you to do just that.  Thanks.

Dan.S posted:

Isnt there a rule not to hijack someones thread? Perhaps an admin could clear things up.

Thank you.

Not so much a rule as just good manners and "netiquette".  Anyway, have posted above.

Dan.S posted:

Isnt there a rule not to hijack someones thread? Perhaps an admin could clear things up.

Thank you.

Hi Dan, as I indicated in my response to the hijacker, the questions may be relevant to your issue as well (though clearly not the matter of computer source unless you also use).

To tell you the truth I did auditioned a pair of C4 at the end of an Accuphase A-70 (and an additional 2x260W Integrated Accuphase). It left me unimpressed is an understatement. They sounded dull and restrained. "Polite" would have been a massive upgrade.  And for the life of me, I don't understand how this can be, they are 5 star rated everywhere I looked, people swear by them to be one of the best speakers ever made at any price. I have also listened to Harbeth and ATC, same story. No authority.

On the other hand I did listen to Marten (wow), Elac (200 and 400 series), MA (Golds and Platinums), Dali (Epicons) and  Audio Physic (3 ways) and they all have that champion pedigree and dna. Your expectations are immediately met, their sound registers as outstanding from the first note.

But when it comes to Dynaudio (C2, C4) I have to constantly remind myself "they cant sound this crap, they are the confidence from dynaudio, it must be me, or the room, or the cables, or the Nap Statement is not enough for them".

I'll shoot straight. The owner wants 3600euro for them. They seem in perfect condition, except no original package and 2 small marks on one of the base plates. They are a bargain. And I'd just might as well buy the cyrus monos for another grand. But what if their trademark sound (which I dont think I like) is going to be the same?

I really would like to hear some Confidence driven properly, sounding their best. They seem such nice and refined  speakers, it would be a shame to misjudge them after two auditions in poor conditions.

You'll only satisfy this quest one way. So just buy them. I'd avoid the Cyrus mono's. If you like the speakers and they need more power then something like a 250 tacked on the end of the SU would do the job. 

I agree with James N. Just buy them, and keep a reserve of a CB/Olive 250, or preferably 250.2 in mind.

Alternatively, if you won't buy them, I will  

Naim and Dynaudio - LOADS of fun and energy.

I think the OP is getting some less than proven advice here.   Wasn't there a thread recently where the OP was struggling with a pair of Dyna Cs and a SN?  My not entirely uneducated hunch is that these speakers really need a NAP 300. If he goes ahead with the purchase and it doesn't work with no packaging it's going to be hard to move them on. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Unless, of course, he is mindful of that and has a longervterm goal of upgrading amp, so buying a bargain now may make sense even if sub-optimal for an interim period. 

The OP has had plenty of advice and still wants the speakers so there really is just one way to go. I think he understands the risks... 

this was posted by Normam of UHES, who has a PHD in loudspeaker design

You can search this forum for Dynaudio special 25

"Hi chaps

It seems to me that there is a common misconception about Dynaudio loudspeakers in general, in that they are not difficult to drive as is often suggested. The nominal impedance of Dynaudio loudspeakers is indeed 4 ohms whilst many makers have a more conventional 8 ohms. But the key to understanding this though is the word nominal, as the actual impedance presented to the amplifier will change with frequency. Dynaudio loudspeakers vary very little from their 4-ohm load over the full range of frequencies whilst other manufactures can at some frequencies go down as low as 2 ohms and as high as 16 ohms.

I suspect that the confusion arises as result when better Naim poweramps are connected that the qualities of the better Poweramp is revealed. I have tried the Special 25’s on everything from a Nait5i, NAC552/500 & the amplifier they were designed on (Dynaudio Arbiter) and much else in-between, the results were the differences between those amplifiers and not a reflection upon the complexity, or in Dynaudio’s case the lack of the complexity of the load.

As an interesting aside Naim poweramps often derive their model numbers from the output measured in Watts RMS into a 4-ohm load.

Hope you find that helpful

Regards,"

as an experiment I once removed my 282/250/HCDR and replaced it with my 202/HCDR/200

with focus 260. The differneces were those expected when moving from 202/200 to 282/250

70 watt NAP 200 can drive this 4 ohm speaker just fine.

Exactly what Norman said.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

I think the OP is getting some less than proven advice here.   Wasn't there a thread recently where the OP was struggling with a pair of Dyna Cs and a SN?  My not entirely uneducated hunch is that these speakers really need a NAP 300. If he goes ahead with the purchase and it doesn't work with no packaging it's going to be hard to move them on. 

Regards,

Lindsay

C2s are hard to move with crates here in the states much less without. That being said the SU will drive them. Without a doubt and they will sound good. SU is not a SN2 but they are rated the same watt wise anyway. A SN2 will drive them. Very well. A 300 better than a SN2? Sure. Is a 300 needed? No. This forum tends to go overboard with what amp is needed for speakers. Your SU will do a great job with the C2. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I'm sure a Statement will better the SU too but that doesn't mean the SU is not up to it. 

Innocent Bystander posted:

Unless, of course, he is mindful of that and has a longervterm goal of upgrading amp, so buying a bargain now may make sense even if sub-optimal for an interim period. 

In that context it makes sense but as a long term solution I believe there is a better approach. 

Mr Analogue - yes my 200 drove my 1.8s but like yourself I went for a 250 DR. 

but my reasons weren't because of Dynaudio..... I didn't find that Nap 200 underpowered for focus 260...