'Professionals' Interest in HiFi

I have no experience of this but I am intrigued to learn if your neighbour has has a listen to your set up and if so what his comments were on the SQ.

I guess they have 'enough of music' at work so to speak

But than again, there is pure statistics to be considered - how many 'hard core' high-end maniacs like us are there, as a precentage of a population?

Studied as concert pianist with Maria Curcio. Studied with Boulez, Kondrashin, Dutoit, Groves. 

Regularly record -- most recently at Air Studios in London, recording Sir Neville Marriner conducting. And Abbey Rd Studio 1 before that. And Birmingham Symphony Hall last summer. And Snape Maltings. And...

nigelb posted:

I have no experience of this but I am intrigued to learn if your neighbour has has a listen to your set up and if so what his comments were on the SQ.

Hi Nigel,   they pop round for drinks once in a while & get to listen but its mostly background level.  He is only really interested is what it can do,  not how it 'sounds'.   He is impressed with the dynamics (for a home system - compared to his lab stuff) & was mightily impressed with the end sequence on RW 'Amused to Death' track-6.   His main interest is sound as in sound effects not in the accurate reproduction of music.  To quote his wife  'I like b flat,  he likes b quiet'   

.......   oops  sorry,  Mrs Mike's correction    'I like b flat,  he likes b noisy' 

I used to teach at a music conservatory and my experience with many students and prof friends is most have little to no interest in hi-fi equipment. The equipment the profs had had would be considered mid-fi to this group. Upon inquiry, many opined that they get enough of music in 'real' environments.

Harry Olson, the director of acoustics at RCA from 1930s- to 1960s, did a number of studies with professional musicians and found that their perceived requirements for fidelity were generally less than the general public. His belief was the musicians would fill in for the limited frequency and dynamic range of the equipment of the day.

Charlie Haden used to own the Naim 500 series but he might have been influenced by Ken who recorded some of his music on top of being the Chicago Naim dealer.

Haim Ronen posted:

Charlie Haden used to own the Naim 500.............

Do you know what speakers he had on th 500 ?  - considering it is Charlie Haden

Mike-B posted:

Haim Ronen posted:

Charlie Haden used to own the Naim 500.............

Do you know what speakers he had on th 500 ?  - considering it is Charlie Haden

No idea. I remember at the time going to Promusica to hear the first 555 player in North America and they were about to pack it and take it to Haden who couldn't wait three months for his player to arrive from the Uk. Next time I see Ken I will ask him about Haden's speakers. I wouldn't be surprised if his choice (considering his instrument and the small ensembles he played with) was a pair of Quad electrostatics.

I have a friend who is an experienced and respected sound engineer, both for recordings and live broadcasts. His experiences range from  doing the sound engineering for Quincy Jones to Rammstein, a lot of Jazz, now more live Sports TV. 

He keeps telling me that all HiFi is .... cannot repeat his expression here, but it is not kind. He thinks I am totally stupid to spend so much money on a stereo. We discussed in lengths about streaming vs. LP12... He will always say there is no "better sound" than clean streaming.  He laughs at anybody who prefers one cable to another. HiFi for him is flat out voodoo. Either there is a signal with a certain strength or there is not. How should a cable change that? How can some electronics parts become so expensive?  Etc. etc. And we had not even started discussing clean mains or stacking orders... He just would not understand. 

And he doesn't need to! I think I as a HiFi fan am  searching for something very different: I don't think I want a "clean signal." I want emotions! I want to play around with cables, stacking orders, etc. I just LIKE discussing issues like 252 vs. 282, sometimes in total disregard of technical data, but based on how fellow listeners feel when they listen with one or the other. I want to try HiLine vs. standard. It is a huge part of my fun in HiFi. As is, of course, music! So, I am not really interested in what any professional, friend or not, will say about my passion. For them it's a job. For me it's only my good fun, my joy. My dear hobby. And my dear hobby might involve a wee bit of voodoo. I don't mind at all! It's all part of the fun! And I don't have to be "professional", just happy! And happiness is delivered in spades by my naim system!!!!! Brillant value for money in this respect! And that is what counts!

It's probably worth pointing out that, when listening to playback of one's own recordings from the performer's perspective, much is lost from that singular, electric moment in terms of the experience itself, and that subsequent listening is often more critical from the perspective of loss of parts of that experience. It's quite different than the experience of listening to someone else's record....

That's not to say that there aren't musicians who love a good hi-fi system–but it's certainly a different experience in terms of scale, compared to listening to the same playback in-place, behind the same mixing console / monitors, &c. in the case of a multitrack recording.

pretty sure i remember JV telling me that Kate Bush had active SBLs. But that was a long while ago

I have a theory that may or may not be relevant and might be a little off topic but here goes.

Us mere mortals (that is non music professionals) have rather high expectations when we go to a concert or hear a live band. And generally, taking into account any limitations of the PA equipment and venue, we are very often pleased, possibly thrilled, with our live listening experience. But when we listen to a mid-fi set up for example we have relatively low expectations, that such a system will struggle to satisfy. As we improve our own more capable set ups (particularly adding developments like DR technology for example) we are often surprised that these systems are starting to resemble the real thing, with the potential to invoke an emotional response in us. Now this is all starting to sound rather special.

Professional musicians (and to some extent recording professionals) on the other hand have all the realism of live music and the emotional response listening to it invokes from their day job. The continual high end quality these professional experience at work might just dull their expectations over time. So when they listen to some hifi, they have almost zero expectations and therefore cannot be disappointed or dissatisfied with the result. And maybe professionals are only looking for background music when they are relaxing, where we mortals might often engage in active listening when we relax.

Two entirely different needs for music in the home. I would also suspect that some professionals might have a very limited need for music in the home as they may well have had that need more than satisfied from the day job. There will of course be exceptions to my theory. Indeed there may be some professionals who's day job instills a passion to replicate their job experiences in the home. There are no absolutes but I am sure there could be trends in the different in-home music needs of professionals and non professionals.

Just a theory. Not sure if this move the debate any further.

My brother is a sound engineer and has a small business providing the gear and set up for live shows, and studio recording / mixing etc.  He does have a proper hifi, nothing over the top, but a nice set up for a particular budget.  Whenever he's got a mix together for a project, he'll be here moments later brandishing a memory stick wanting to know what it sounds like on my system.  There are a couple of things I've observed and found interesting about this process.  

Firstly, each time this has happened, there has been something in the mix that he finds completely wrong on my system.  It's usually that some part of it is way more upfront and dominating than he expected, and presumably far removed from what he heard on his own system.  Its not the usual bass, mids, highs kind of appraisal that is so common around here, its things like a backing vocal is too forward, or guitarist is too far to the left.  Its about the individual tracks recorded and how they sit in the mix.  I give my own critique of it also, and then he disappears for some time, and returns with a different mix-down.  This can be repeated several times, but in the end it usually sounds pretty damn good to my ears.  I guess it would do, as effectively its been mixed to sound right on my system, which is handy as some of the stuff he's recorded I quite like.  

Another observation is that the original mix I'll be presented with has drum tea-towel syndrome.  The drums sound kind of spongey, no snap, or bite.  

Final observation, whenever I discover an album or track I think he'll like, I play it on what we both regard as a pretty kick-ass system, but rarely does his foot tap.  Instead you can see him dissecting the mix in his head.  At the end he'll try and tell me everything he would have done differently, apparently not having been engaged by the actual music at all.

They are a weird breed. 

one rather disheartening possibility: no matter how hard we try (and how much we spend) our systems are a poor substitute for the "real" thing (which they have sort of premium access to)  - so, "why bother"?

jon honeyball posted:

pretty sure i remember JV telling me that Kate Bush had active SBLs. But that was a long while ago

I read somewhere that Charlie Haden said that SBLs were the best he'd heard at portraying the upright bass properly. 

Oh well,  my neighbour's not bring home the BAFTA,  the Best Sound winner was 'Arrival'

I once spoke to a London dealer who had installed Eric Clapton's  system and it was a mega expensive vinyl based configuration.  

Hobbyists by definition are more fanatical than professionals. They get paid for a start.

I am also pretty sure that many racing car drivers don' t bother with a sports car for home use.

Live music is very different to commercially recorded stuff and is far more variable in quality.  It's not really useful to ask those that produce it.  Trust you own obsessive ears.

nigelb posted:

I have a theory that may or may not be relevant and might be a little off topic but here goes.

Us mere mortals (that is non music professionals) have rather high expectations when we go to a concert or hear a live band. And generally, taking into account any limitations of the PA equipment and venue, we are very often pleased, possibly thrilled, with our live listening experience. But when we listen to a mid-fi set up for example we have relatively low expectations, that such a system will struggle to satisfy. As we improve our own more capable set ups (particularly adding developments like DR technology for example) we are often surprised that these systems are starting to resemble the real thing, with the potential to invoke an emotional response in us. Now this is all starting to sound rather special.

Professional musicians (and to some extent recording professionals) on the other hand have all the realism of live music and the emotional response listening to it invokes from their day job. The continual high end quality these professional experience at work might just dull their expectations over time. So when they listen to some hifi, they have almost zero expectations and therefore cannot be disappointed or dissatisfied with the result. And maybe professionals are only looking for background music when they are relaxing, where we mortals might often engage in active listening when we relax.

Two entirely different needs for music in the home. I would also suspect that some professionals might have a very limited need for music in the home as they may well have had that need more than satisfied from the day job. There will of course be exceptions to my theory. Indeed there may be some professionals who's day job instills a passion to replicate their job experiences in the home. There are no absolutes but I am sure there could be trends in the different in-home music needs of professionals and non professionals.

Just a theory. Not sure if this move the debate any further.

There is a lot of logic in what you wrote Nigel - whenever I come back from either a rehearsal or from a recording studio and most of the time I'm either alone in a car or with a drummer-friend, we never listen to any music. We chat, mostly about what to improve in a track we were just playing, how the kids are doing, etc, etc. But there is absolutely no urge / desire / need to listen to ANYTHING remotely resembling music. I need to sleep before I can listen to anything recorded.

Mind you - mixing / mastering was optimised for playing back from my main Naim system. We tweaked the mastering to a point where I was happy listetning to it at home. Happy as in - it reminded me of what I heard in the mixing room.
Apparently it sounds good on other stereo systems

I have a couple of close friends involved in the audio recording and mastering business one who has been and the other who definitely is in the professional audio recording business - and they both get hifi - not pretentious hifi but real hifi... they totally get it - and are the most critical people I know of sound reproduction systems.

One of them who is early on in his audio career has just purchases a pair of Yamaha actives for his home studio - which are are the standard in more entry level setups.

I also have a close family friend who wired up Ed Sheeran's home recording studio - but other than Ed cooks a pretty nifty full English I can't tell you much on that one

https://www.cnet.com/uk/news/c...hardcore-audiophile/

Possibly relevant article highlights a few musicians who appreciate HiFi, amongst them, Keith Jarrett. However, it strikes me that such examples are rare and perhaps it comes down to the fact that a good musician can 'hear through' the sonics of ANY HiFi and so the relatively small difference (to their ears) between good and not so good equipment is not critical. For us laymen, maybe we need all the help we can get?

Intersting article.

This thread has made me realise why there is so much badly mixed and produced music out there....

My students are very appreciative of hifi (Rega/Linn setup) and not only trial their studio mix downs on it but have enjoyed going through a 3000 LP collection I've set up over the years. The problem is that a) most of them can't afford or accommodate such luxury and b) when it comes down to it they are too busy producing (both senses) music to be able to consume it for very long. Consequently HiFi is not top of their own lists, but appreciate it they do.

Is it possible that his hearing is shot, and that he either doesn't know it or he doesn't want to talk about it?