Uninvolving

I've no idea about the Proacs, but before thinking of spending a lot, try borrowing a pair of Naca5 speaker leads from your dealer. I tried Odyssey for about a year once and ultimately got rid of them, as while the sound was very tidy with good spatial definition, the music was rather uninvolving. It may make no difference, but it's worth a try. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I've no idea about the Proacs, but before thinking of spending a lot, try borrowing a pair of Naca5 speaker leads from your dealer. I tried Odyssey for about a year once and ultimately got rid of them, as while the sound was very tidy with good spatial definition, the music was rather uninvolving. It may make no difference, but it's worth a try. 

Thanks for the advice. I tried A5 a while back but that was when I was in a bad place. Things are much better now. Maybe the NAC will help.

Did you try Epic by any chance?

I've not been brave enough to get into power cables yet... but... I just yoinked the i-sheng stock cable out of my Zenith and put a spare Naim stock in.

Shocked at the difference! Calmed everything down a good notch. Crikey, what would a Powerline do I wonder.

Epic is Odyssey in a fancy coat; though I've not tried it you'd expect it to be similar. 

Worth trying NACA - Oydessy is great for me - but whilst I've no experience of Proac on the occasions I've heard them I've never been inspired.    Alongside Dyna you should try Neat and Kudos. Did you try the Hugo with the SN2?

Regards,

Lindsay

Hi Lindsay,

Thanks for notes. I tried Hugo with SN2.

SN2 made things less involving and the cold edge more apparent. I suspect this was because the SN2 is revealing something wrong at the fron of the system.... and I think I just found it!! 

The Naim cable i just threw in has changed this a lot. It seems the i-sheng cable that came with my server was highlighting the highs and killing the lows. Much better balance for my ears now.

Can't wait to hear the Core/NDX.

Did you ever find 'involving' or this something thats been present since forever.

If you are going to try the NDX, I would hold your fire until then as your front end seems a bit suspect - what is a 'Zenith'

I have Odyssey & I am very happy with it - I replaced Linn K20 with it, K20 is a NACA5 look alike,  the Odyssey was a keeper

Proac 118'  never heard them personally but they have OK reviews in the comics.    I would wait until you hear the NDX & if that doesn't fix'um, then I would look around for alternative speakers

Final point,  I don't see a Core as a must have,  its a CD ripper & while I'm very sure it does a good job with that,  its an expensive way to store music.    Unless you're an absolute IT numpty,  better to use have a NAS & PC/Mac for ripping CD's, then once the CD's are ripped its all downloading from www,  so who needs a ripper. 

The Zenith is, I assume, the Innuos machine that's even more expensive than a Core. With the Hugo, it should be an excellent source. 

Mike-B posted:

Did you ever find 'involving' or this something thats been present since forever.

If you are going to try the NDX, I would hold your fire until then as your front end seems a bit suspect - what is a 'Zenith'

 

 

Probably an Innuos Zenith, similar to a US/Core but, in my experience very reliable and easy to use even for bit of an IT numpty like me.

HH got there first!

I'd be surprised if simply changing a mains lead could bring the sort of change suggested, but who knows? As Mike says, with an NDX, a NAS is really all you need. And would a Core sound better than a Zenith? And why was the latter chosen over a UnitiServe previously?

If it is the Innuos Zenith,  then I would keep that for sure & forget the Core.  It'll be interesting to compare its streaming SQ against NDX.   

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'd be surprised if simply changing a mains lead could bring the sort of change suggested, but who knows? 

This would surprise me as well, I simply can't see by what process this would have any effect.

Hi guys,

Yes, Innuos Zenith. It's a million miles ahead of anything else I have used as a source to Hugo. Mac/PC/Melco. Can't fault it comparatively speaking.

Didn't audition at US. Silly really. Should have.

I am curious that a Naim product (Core) in the same guise as Zenith might be better. Some of you don't seem to be convinced. Is this based on experience? Got to say the Innuos has been a good step forward.

I know it sounds bonkers but the Naim stock power lead replacing the molded i-sheng on the Zenith has had the following effect:

Vocals dropped back slightly (good thing)

Highs more intergrated (good thing)

Lows tighter / bess boomy (good thing in most cases)

More natural / liquid (definitely a good thing)

The i-sheng makes everything bright/edgy/more separate/emphasised. (Bad thing)

NDX is the one I am really interested in. Using the Innuos as an expensive store. 

The XS2 drives me mad. It bobbles along lovely. But the refinement on vocals just isn't there at times. With a FCXS it's fine but then you lose a bit of musical flow. Supernait2 same effect. Trade-off. Eventually my ears will give in and go for the subtler sound. 

Hugo 2 should be good. I enjoyed the TT but the price was too much for the relatively small (yet very satisfying) SQ improvement. Joined the dots more. 

Mike-B posted:

If it is the Innuos Zenith,  then I would keep that for sure & forget the Core.  It'll be interesting to compare its streaming SQ against NDX.   

I'll have a view on Zenith vs NDX as a feed for Hugo by March 4th hopefully.

Then I can give up the ghost and accept I need to upgrade my amp/change speakers.

Well, neither the SN2 or the XS integrated amps are uninvolving, same applies for the Proac's. If it was me, I would look at the Hugo, and go from there.

Just an idea, if you have access to a Naim CD player, insert that and see if you still have that uninvolved feeling.

Thatsnotmynaim has reported previously hos conclusion re Innuos Zenith over Melco and Mac-based solutions.  I don't recall anyone else reporting on the same extensive comparisons. However, the Core remains a possible contender at present, as no-one yet seems to have done any detailed comparisons using it as a renderer (pkayer).

Are the switching mode power supplies on the same outlet as the Nait? The Hugo's you can at least turn off when you listen but not the Innuos's. A lot of SMPS can sap the life out of a Naim system and are best used on a separate circuit. 

The Core has a linear supply and can be plugged in next to the Nait but the meta data editing function for tha app isn't out yet. I've only run mine through a Rega DAC-r so far and the results are quite promising though through the Rega a little inconsistant. The Core responded surprisingly well to a full Powerline by the way. I will be trying a Hugo (2?) in a couple of weeks but I've not heard one yet.

ThatsNotMyNaim posted

 

Then I can give up the ghost and accept I need to upgrade my amp/change speakers.

Could be that what your really looking for is results that really only come from big grade upness rather than an upgrade to find more involvement. Watching water boil for ages is one thing. Having it nuked to vapour in nano seconds is something else  

ThatsNotMyNaim posted:

Zenith > Hugo > Chord Shawline > Nait XS2 (W/WO Flatcap XS) > Chord Odyssey 2 > Proac 118.

I find it at times a little uninvolving and lacking expression/freedom.

1) I'd doubt the Proac are uninvolving. My first move would be to borrow some NACA5 to replace the Odyssey as others have suggested.

2) When I had a FCXS on Nait XS I found the sound got flat periodically. A power down and re-start could sometimes revitalize the system for several weeks. The other thought would be to remove the FCXS and see what you think. Adding a PSU does not always equate to improvement IME.

3) Any chance you're using a power-strip?

joerand posted:

ThatsNotMyNaim posted:

Zenith > Hugo > Chord Shawline > Nait XS2 (W/WO Flatcap XS) > Chord Odyssey 2 > Proac 118.

I find it at times a little uninvolving and lacking expression/freedom.

I'd doubt the Proac are uninvolving. My first move would be to borrow some NACA5 to replace the Odyssey as others have suggested.

I haven't had listen to the 118,  but auditioned ProAc's Tablette Anniversary. That was with an XS2 and ND5XS. Admittedly, Proac wasn't our favourite as we preferred Neat and PMC, and ended up with the latter. But nonetheless we thought Naim and Proac were a fairly decent match. I certainly wouldn't have described it as uninvolving and we seriously considered ProAC (even tried the DB1 with a different dealer, again with XS2 but a non-Naim source). The Tablette dealer used some Tellurium cable, and the listening room was set up very well.

Do you have a mains interference filter plugged in on the same mains circuit as the audio equipment?  If so try removing it.

Try removing all SMPS from the mains circuit (you can then plug them back in again until you find the troublesome one).

Try moving the speakers around to different positions - it could easily be a speaker / room interaction effect.

Timo posted:

joerand posted:

ThatsNotMyNaim posted:

Zenith > Hugo > Chord Shawline > Nait XS2 (W/WO Flatcap XS) > Chord Odyssey 2 > Proac 118.

I find it at times a little uninvolving and lacking expression/freedom.

I'd doubt the Proac are uninvolving. My first move would be to borrow some NACA5 to replace the Odyssey as others have suggested.

I haven't had listen to the 118,  but auditioned ProAc's Tablette Anniversary. That was with an XS2 and ND5XS. Admittedly, Proac wasn't our favourite as we preferred Neat and PMC, and ended up with the latter. But nonetheless we thought Naim and Proac were a fairly decent match. I certainly wouldn't have described it as uninvolving and we seriously considered ProAC (even tried the DB1 with a different dealer, again with XS2 but a non-Naim source). The Tablette dealer used some Tellurium cable, and the listening room was set up very well.

Why did you choose the PMC? And what were the DB1 like by comparison? Cheers

I use a cheap 2m maplins power strip. With no filter or surge protector as these killed the prat. The basic bar seemed ok and I dont hear distinct changes between it and the mains directly.

Agree on PSU. They change the sound but whether it's better itls subjective. 

badlands posted:

Well, neither the SN2 or the XS integrated amps are uninvolving, same applies for the Proac's. If it was me, I would look at the Hugo, and go from there.

Just an idea, if you have access to a Naim CD player, insert that and see if you still have that uninvolved feeling.

Trying that March 4th too. CD5 XS.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Thatsnotmynaim has reported previously hos conclusion re Innuos Zenith over Melco and Mac-based solutions.  I don't recall anyone else reporting on the same extensive comparisons. However, the Core remains a possible contender at present, as no-one yet seems to have done any detailed comparisons using it as a renderer (pkayer).

There are many people out there with them but I can't seem to find anyone's comments on UC performancr vs anything else (Like US or Melco).