new or old(ish)?
Posted by: DomTomLondon on 20 February 2017
As I wait for my Atom order to arrive, my hi-fi dealer has generously lent me a SuperUniti to play with until the Atom is available. Everything was fine, until the other day when I received an email from the dealer letting me know that he could sell me a S/H SuperUniti now, if I so wished, for half the RRP. (But this is a time limited offer)
It's very tempting, as the SU sounds very good in my lounge with a pair of LS50s. I've only heard the Atom once, at a Hi-Fi show, and with completely different speakers. So difficult to say how it compares to the SU.
Part of me says; the Atom will be good enough and have the features I've been waiting for... AirPlay, CD AccuratRip (via USB port), Large colour screen, Native DSD playback....
But another part says; go with a great deal now, for a much beefier power section.
Most Naim dealers will give you at least 80% of your purchase price in trade toward your next purcase, within a year, a bit less thereafter. Call it Rent!
I'd take the deal, if I liked the piece.
Nick
I'm not sure whether the CD ripping is relevant, as the Atom doesn't have a CD drive. And doesn't the SU play DSD already, via the latest firmware? The Atom of course has the google cast which would be good for Qobuz, and has the over air update, which is very convenient. But - there's no way a new box for £1,800 is going to be as good as a current box for £3,800, is there? It just wouldn't make sense.
Anyway, the SU looks great sitting in your shelves - would you really want something with a volume knob on the top?
Thanks Nick.
Yes the great deal on the SU is the logical choice. But the enhancement in the new Uniti range are also very tempting to me...
Hungryhalibut posted:I'm not sure whether the CD ripping is relevant, as the Atom doesn't have a CD drive. And doesn't the SU play DSD already, via the latest firmware? The Atom of course has the google cast which would be good for Qobuz, and has the over air update, which is very convenient. But - there's no way a new box for £1,800 is going to be as good as a current box for £3,800, is there? It just wouldn't make sense.
Anyway, the SU looks great sitting in your shelves - would you really want something with a volume knob on the top?
I know that it's not really an equal comparison, when you think about price. And I'm sure the SU will be much better in SQ alone.
From what I'm able to determine, SU converts the DSD stream to a very high-res PCM signal before feeding it to it's DAC. So it's not quite the same as a pure DSD signal. I'm only guessing, but assume, that the new Uniti range use new DACs what allow for DSD playback without any conversion.
As for CD ripping. Even though the Atom does not have an internal CD drive. It does allow for an external USB drive to be attached in order to accurately rip and store files on USB attached storage. Quite handy if you ask me.
Ask your speakers: I reckon they prefer the SU's amplification over the Atom's new features... 
If I was offered this deal 100 times I would buy the SU all 100 of them. (If could afford the SU).
Don't seduced by new features.
It depends whether features win out over sound quality, and only you can answer that. Even then it's a guess unless you have heard them side by side. If buying the SU means you'll always hanker after the new features, don't get the SU.
But ultimately, isn't sound quality the most important goal in hi-fi?
P.S. I am assuming we aren't talking about a second system in the kitchen...
It's got to look good and be nice to use too, as well as doing what you want. There's more to a pair of trousers than just keeping you warm.
Timo posted:P.S. I am assuming we aren't talking about a second system in the kitchen...
no, this is my main system, although my flat is open concept, lounge/kitchen. So you could say that it's a system in the kitchen ;-)
Hungryhalibut posted:It's got to look good and be nice to use too, as well as doing what you want. There's more to a pair of trousers than just keeping you warm.
Fair enough -- but what about funky clothes that can't keep you warm enough? And, once you felt the warmth from solid garment can you really go back to something that just about keeps you warm but is slightly more fashionable? 
Hungryhalibut posted:It's got to look good and be nice to use too, as well as doing what you want. There's more to a pair of trousers than just keeping you warm.
I have to admit, I quite like the new Uniti re-design. Saying that, the old Uniti range was and still is a pleasure to look at. The industrial design is much nicer/cleaner looking than most other hi-fi out there.
Sound quality is at the top of my list. But you're right usability is very important as well. For instance, I like to use the remote a lot more than the App, to quickly search for/choose music. However, I hardly ever use the volume dial on the unit. Perhaps because I use to have the unitiQute, which had the volume/mute button built into the logo.
Hungryhalibut posted:It's got to look good and be nice to use too, as well as doing what you want. There's more to a pair of trousers than just keeping you warm.
Yes, trousers have to vibrate with the bass notes and transmit to your legs, while it is usually considerered decent to have a certain lack of transparency...
I imagine we all mentally assign different weighting factors to different design considerations, and the famed WAF may modify our own inner personal inclinations.
For me, sound quality rats far and above everything else by a large margin; appearance is of moderate significance only for speakers, much lower for other components as they are relatively small and doesn't need to be in such a prominent position; ease of use counts most for the source, but not above sound quality.
Hungryhalibut posted:It's got to look good and be nice to use too, as well as doing what you want. There's more to a pair of trousers than just keeping you warm.
This. This right here.
DomTom - your situation and mine are reversed; I'm trying to sell / part exchange my SU since I've decided my next pair of trousers is a Nova. I also have an original v1Qute but the resell or trade value on that (my second system) is less than its value to me, so upgrading it for a (much more fully featured) Atom is less likely. Unless I have a windfall haha
So, I'm now without my SU and moved my Qute down to the main system in the living room. When I upgraded, a few years back, I was happy that the SU offered "more" sound (often described by others as grip, definition, clarity, authority...). When I went the other way, a few weeks back, the "less" was so much more obvious than I recall relative to the improvement. I was really astonished. Granted, I had also improved the speakers, now owning small standmount and possibly harder to drive / more demanding / more revealing Kudos S10's rather than floorstanding Tannoy Precision 6.2's. Granted I also lost feature upgrades from firmware (native DSD not really an issue for me, but integrated Tidal a major loss) since the older Qute "2D" hardware hadn't benefited from the upgrades in the same manner as the newer "3D" SU. So, a bit of a double whammy.
On Friday, agitating over the long lead time to expect the Nova, I went to my shop and had a listen and arranged to borrow a Trigon Trinity all-in-one; nice reviews, more SU level in price and power... includes built in CD player and ripper, Tidal, Qobuz, iRadio, etc. Immediately noticed the improved sound quality at home. The better amp does what people on this forum often say, that's for sure. Especially the low volume and bass performance. But the user interface experience is much more "level by level" stepping through tree branches, even to change source from iRadio to Tidal or NAS. So, for me, reassured that Naim (no matter how critical we folks on here can sometimes be!) has an infinitely more mature interface and app, I can eliminate at least this immediately available alternative from my list. I have not tried the Moon or any Linn or other offerings but that's okay, I only needed a nudge to stay the course until May or June or July.
So, advice... or st least further reflections.
The bargain SU is a real bargain; it is a great piece of kit and if you love it, it will be supported for a while yet. It is not "broken" by the imminent introduction of the next gen platform. Whoever gets mine will love it like I did, and will get a sweet price deal on the back of my desire to try the next latest thing. I'm hoping the Nova sounds a little better and has even more features and flexibility. Obviously I don't know, but that's where my wardrobe is heading.
The Atom may well step up on the Qute - even the v2 Qute with the "3D" board and DSD/Tidal/etc. - for both sound and features. I'd like that to be true, and again all preliminary reports seem positive. I will certainly arrange to listen when one is available here (and especially if it arrives before the Nova starts shipping).
If I were you, I would believe HH and not expect the Atom to sound better than the SuperUniti, even if the platform is more "future proof" and offers immediate extra convenience (eg ripping).
So I'd suggest you ask your dealer about hearing a Qute at home, comparing it to the SU, and if you love it then await delivery of your Atom and if you prefer the Super, then seize the bargain and set up a pc or Mac to do your rips, add an Airport Express for your AipPlay or a ChromeCast Audio for your chromecast, and relax with the music and the great deal. What I wouldn't want to have to do is decide straight up between an SU and an (unheard) Atom, as they are going to be in very different leagues of performance. Trading sound performance for convenience is definitely something to consider, but I would counsel making as informed a decision on the sound difference as you can, since the existing feature set of the SU is easily something that can be lived with...
Regards alan
edit: I see now you used to have a Qute, so the real question boils down to whether the Atom upgrade (likely better sound, definitely better features) would outweigh the SU upgrade (definitely better sound, only slightly better features). Relying on memory will be tricky, so still sticking with my advice to do an A/B between the SU you have at home and another Qute.
alan33 posted:Hungryhalibut posted:It's got to look good and be nice to use too, as well as doing what you want. There's more to a pair of trousers than just keeping you warm.
This. This right here.
DomTom - your situation and mine are reversed; I'm trying to sell / part exchange my SU since I've decided my next pair of trousers is a Nova. I also have an original v1Qute but the resell or trade value on that (my second system) is less than its value to me, so upgrading it for a (much more fully featured) Atom is less likely. Unless I have a windfall haha
So, I'm now without my SU and moved my Qute down to the main system in the living room. When I upgraded, a few years back, I was happy that the SU offered "more" sound (often described by others as grip, definition, clarity, authority...). When I went the other way, a few weeks back, the "less" was so much more obvious than I recall relative to the improvement. I was really astonished. Granted, I had also improved the speakers, now owning small standmount and possibly harder to drive / more demanding / more revealing Kudos S10's rather than floorstanding Tannoy Precision 6.2's. Granted I also lost feature upgrades from firmware (native DSD not really an issue for me, but integrated Tidal a major loss) since the older Qute "2D" hardware hadn't benefited from the upgrades in the same manner as the newer "3D" SU. So, a bit of a double whammy.
On Friday, agitating over the long lead time to expect the Nova, I went to my shop and had a listen and arranged to borrow a Trigon Trinity all-in-one; nice reviews, more SU level in price and power... includes built in CD player and ripper, Tidal, Qobuz, iRadio, etc. Immediately noticed the improved sound quality at home. The better amp does what people on this forum often say, that's for sure. Especially the low volume and bass performance. But the user interface experience is much more "level by level" stepping through tree branches, even to change source from iRadio to Tidal or NAS. So, for me, reassured that Naim (no matter how critical we folks on here can sometimes be!) has an infinitely more mature interface and app, I can eliminate at least this immediately available alternative from my list. I have not tried the Moon or any Linn or other offerings but that's okay, I only needed a nudge to stay the course until May or June or July.
So, advice... or st least further reflections.
The bargain SU is a real bargain; it is a great piece of kit and if you love it, it will be supported for a while yet. It is not "broken" by the imminent introduction of the next gen platform. Whoever gets mine will love it like I did, and will get a sweet price deal on the back of my desire to try the next latest thing. I'm hoping the Nova sounds a little better and has even more features and flexibility. Obviously I don't know, but that's where my wardrobe is heading.
The Atom may well step up on the Qute - even the v2 Qute with the "3D" board and DSD/Tidal/etc. - for both sound and features. I'd like that to be true, and again all preliminary reports seem positive. I will certainly arrange to listen when one is available here (and especially if it arrives before the Nova starts shipping).
If I were you, I would believe HH and not expect the Atom to sound better than the SuperUniti, even if the platform is more "future proof" and offers immediate extra convenience (eg ripping).
So I'd suggest you ask your dealer about hearing a Qute at home, comparing it to the SU, and if you love it then await delivery of your Atom and if you prefer the Super, then seize the bargain and set up a pc or Mac to do your rips, add an Airport Express for your AipPlay or a ChromeCast Audio for your chromecast, and relax with the music and the great deal. What I wouldn't want to have to do is decide straight up between an SU and an (unheard) Atom, as they are going to be in very different leagues of performance. Trading sound performance for convenience is definitely something to consider, but I would counsel making as informed a decision on the sound difference as you can, since the existing feature set of the SU is easily something that can be lived with...
Regards alan
edit: I see now you used to have a Qute, so the real question boils down to whether the Atom upgrade (likely better sound, definitely better features) would outweigh the SU upgrade (definitely better sound, only slightly better features). Relying on memory will be tricky, so still sticking with my advice to do an A/B between the SU you have at home and another Qute.
Hi Alan, thanks for sharing your experience and advice. It's defiantly something to think about.
I did have a unitiQute and NAP100. Which sounded very good to me. And I would have been happily using them still if it wasn't for those extra features that the new Uniti range introduced. So I guess, as long as the Atom doesn't sounds worse then the qute/NAP100 combo, which I doubt, I will be a happy camper.
regards
Dom
Hi Dom, I’d just hang on in there. Its only a few months to go until the new Uniti range is launched - and that time will fly by. Plus, more time to put money aside as well. Then the real choice could actually be Nova or Atom, both kitted out with the latest streaming platform and design (superb) aesthetic and operating features. These units theoretically will have a longer lifespan than an end of line SuperUniti. They are now reduced for a reason.
Alternatively, if you become smitten, there are going to be a lot of SuperUniti boxes around at potentially even cheaper prices when the new range hit the shelves and the old models are traded in or sold on.
Basically you are in a win win situation!
DomTomLondon posted:I did have a unitiQute and NAP100. Which sounded very good to me. And I would have been happily using them still if it wasn't for those extra features that the new Uniti range introduced. So I guess, as long as the Atom doesn't sounds worse then the qute/NAP100 combo, which I doubt, I will be a happy camper.
Interesting thanks - in that sense we are in much the same situation as I desire the same (certainly not worse, hopefully a bit better) performance with a longer future of firmware updates and feature enhancements from the next (effectively 3rd) generation Uniti platform. I anticipate happy camping for SU to Nova. I equally anticipate happy camping from Qute to Atom.
My recent surprise over the "downgrade" from Super to Qute prompts me to ask; were you "just as" happy camping with the Qute as with the Qute / NAP100 combo? I have no experience here, and opinions on these forums vary enough that there is no clear "automatic" answer. But better performance from a beefier amp is something to keep in mind... That said, all signs point to "trickle down" enhancements for Atom over Qute, and Nova over Super.
Second, I'm very positive on the changes in internal computational beefier horsepower as the driver for my own desire to upgrade. I did not upgrade to the higher res board as it didn't seem like a big enough jump for the dollars, but this entirely new platform is already offering new features that are known to exceed the capacity of the existing products (like an audiophile grade ChromeCast implementation that opens the door for other streaming services such as Qobuz). I was among those who bought a UPnP and iRadio device, and was amazed to benefit from other services, like DSD, Spotify Connect and Tidal, which had not even been imagined on my purchase date. Who knows what other "extras" we will see in two or five years' time (MQA comes to mind, as does Roon... but I'm not an authority on what else is out there). If that floats your boat too, then we are very much on the same page!
Looking forward to hearing how things turn out...for us both!
Regards alan
alan33 posted:DomTomLondon posted:I did have a unitiQute and NAP100. Which sounded very good to me. And I would have been happily using them still if it wasn't for those extra features that the new Uniti range introduced. So I guess, as long as the Atom doesn't sounds worse then the qute/NAP100 combo, which I doubt, I will be a happy camper.
Interesting thanks - in that sense we are in much the same situation as I desire the same (certainly not worse, hopefully a bit better) performance with a longer future of firmware updates and feature enhancements from the next (effectively 3rd) generation Uniti platform. I anticipate happy camping for SU to Nova. I equally anticipate happy camping from Qute to Atom.
My recent surprise over the "downgrade" from Super to Qute prompts me to ask; were you "just as" happy camping with the Qute as with the Qute / NAP100 combo? I have no experience here, and opinions on these forums vary enough that there is no clear "automatic" answer. But better performance from a beefier amp is something to keep in mind... That said, all signs point to "trickle down" enhancements for Atom over Qute, and Nova over Super.
Second, I'm very positive on the changes in internal computational beefier horsepower as the driver for my own desire to upgrade. I did not upgrade to the higher res board as it didn't seem like a big enough jump for the dollars, but this entirely new platform is already offering new features that are known to exceed the capacity of the existing products (like an audiophile grade ChromeCast implementation that opens the door for other streaming services such as Qobuz). I was among those who bought a UPnP and iRadio device, and was amazed to benefit from other services, like DSD, Spotify Connect and Tidal, which had not even been imagined on my purchase date. Who knows what other "extras" we will see in two or five years' time (MQA comes to mind, as does Roon... but I'm not an authority on what else is out there). If that floats your boat too, then we are very much on the same page!
Looking forward to hearing how things turn out...for us both!
Regards alan
I was one of those that heard a benefit from adding the NAP100 to the Qute. The extra power really brought the music to a higher level. Mostly in the low end and soundstage. Which was exactly what I was after with the upgrade.
I know what you mean about the new platform. This is the only reason stopping me from just getting the SU now. Not only do we get extra features with the new Uniti range. But we should also see other features later on as they become available with firmware updates. where as the old units range might not get the same treatment.
regards, Dom
Yetizone posted:Hi Dom, I’d just hang on in there. Its only a few months to go until the new Uniti range is launched - and that time will fly by. Plus, more time to put money aside as well. Then the real choice could actually be Nova or Atom, both kitted out with the latest streaming platform and design (superb) aesthetic and operating features. These units theoretically will have a longer lifespan than an end of line SuperUniti. They are now reduced for a reason.
Alternatively, if you become smitten, there are going to be a lot of SuperUniti boxes around at potentially even cheaper prices when the new range hit the shelves and the old models are traded in or sold on.
Basically you are in a win win situation!
Yes, you're absolutely correct. I was just thinking if the Atom is a bit lacking, that if I can't stretch to get the Nova. I could potentially go for the Star. And trade in my Audiolab CD8200, which I use as a transport.
DomTomLondon posted:Yes, you're absolutely correct. I was just thinking if the Atom is a bit lacking, that if I can't stretch to get the Nova. I could potentially go for the Star. And trade in my Audiolab CD8200, which I use as a transport.
Well, Star is quite a different proposition -- 70W amplication compared to Atom's humble 40W. This is of course reflected in a rather different price... And maybe even Nova?! From £1,749 to £4,099... If you think about stretching all the way up to Nova, why were you considering Atom in the first place?? I am somewhat puzzled...
Timo posted:DomTomLondon posted:Yes, you're absolutely correct. I was just thinking if the Atom is a bit lacking, that if I can't stretch to get the Nova. I could potentially go for the Star. And trade in my Audiolab CD8200, which I use as a transport.
Well, Star is quite a different proposition -- 70W amplication compared to Atom's humble 40W. This is of course reflected in a rather different price... And maybe even Nova?! From £1,749 to £4,099... If you think about stretching all the way up to Nova, why were you considering Atom in the first place?? I am somewhat puzzled...
My plan was to get the Atom (which I have on order), until I started to listen to the SU. Which has recently been offered to me for £2100. That's about what my budget would allow. But If I were to trade in my CD player, perhaps the Star would be in reach... he he..
I am new to Hifi and Naim -- so I certainly lack the wisdom and experience of most members here. But I still think you would like to give your KEF LS50 more than Atom amplification. The first Naim amp I listened to was the 5si -- and I thought this would be good enough for me. And then I listened to the XS2 -- huge difference. The speakers were driven so much more comfortably, even at low volume. I still remember the difference when comparing the second and third movement of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata -- not the most demanding track for hifi. But XS2 made it sound so much more like a piano... Until then I thought I would just buy a hifi sytem I could be happy with; shortly after that I slowly realised that I might have started a journey... That wasn't my intention, though my wife (from the very beginning) feared this. Obviously, she knows me better than I know myself. Q.E.D.
Timo posted:I am new to Hifi and Naim -- so I certainly lack the wisdom and experience of most members here. But I still think you would like to give your KEF LS50 more than Atom amplification. The first Naim amp I listened to was the 5si -- and I thought this would be good enough for me. And then I listened to the XS2 -- huge difference. The speakers were driven so much more comfortably, even at low volume. I still remember the difference when comparing the second and third movement of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata -- not the most demanding track for hifi. But XS2 made it sound so much more like a piano... Until then I thought I would just buy a hifi sytem I could be happy with; shortly after that I slowly realised that I might have started a journey... That wasn't my intention, though my wife (from the very beginning) feared this. Obviously, she knows me better than I know myself. Q.E.D.
Ha ha, I know what you mean. I thought that the Qute and NAP100 would be good enough for me for the next 10 years. But every couple of months I would get this itch to see what else I could change/upgrade. Then last year I was thinking of just adding a Chord Hugo to my qute/Nap combo. But then the new Uniti range was announced and I stated a whole new journey to get the Atom. However this time I really do want to get something I won't want to upgrade again in a few months time.
If you're happy with what the SU is doing now, I would go for it. It's easy enough for you to read up on the advantages of the new streaming platform that the Atom etc. will have, but if you buy one, I suspect you will miss the sound quality of the SU, and the extra clout of it's power amp.
One thing I would check out is how old the SU is, and how much warranty the dealer will give you on it. Is it new, ex-demo, or second hand? (Many dealers take used ones back from customers as trade-ins.) If it's the latter, the dealer is probably charging you the same price as a 2 year old one on the used market.