Sorry I am late to the party - Super Lumina

I get your point and that was not what I wanted to say. More like that there is more out there, working well with Naim and shouldn't be overlooked just because it has another Name/Naim...

i guess it didn't really sound like that, did it :-)

I will do better next time. 

//Jonas

I've never liked negative put-downs by anybody against a thread where somebody is happy - I expected more from a Trade Member, but it is no big deal, as people will form their own opinions.

DB.

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Super Lumina is great if you aim for the second (or maybe the third) best. 

But don't foul yourself into something else.

Sorry kids but it is as it is. Now, going back to my cave...be careful ...

//Jonas

With a post like that I wish there were two buttons: LIKE and DISLIKE. The second one would come very handy here.

Chill out, we a discussing a cable here. 

//Jonas

Jonas - you have a real tallent for being quite condensending and downright rude. A shame, especially for someone registered as a Trade Member. I'm really, really happy I am not your customer.

Maybe there's a language issue here, with the message coming over rather more brusquely and negatively than the Jonas intended? - I note his declared intention to do better next time.

Jonas explained above that the post was not meant to read as it did, so perhaps he should be given the benefit of the doubt, and we can move on. We all say things slightly wrongly, sometimes. 

Fair enough - let's move on...

Basically, I fail to see benefit of his remarks/comments. As I have said each to his own, I could not be happier with the choice I have made after listening to most of the aforementioned cables and didn't really prefer any of them over standard nac A5 and Lavender because, as Darke Bear found, the music got lost and was replaced with sterile impressive bass etc.

How someone could come out with a guess about my system is beyond my comprehension and to state 2nd or 3rd best is complete ignorance and stupidity.

Moving on... yup, I agree the full loom SL is rather special... I moved up from the previous best generation of Naim cables and have never looked back.

I have a full Super Lumina loom, though in my case it only requires three wires! I find the impact of the wires delightful, and they just get me closer to the music, which is all that matters to me. There may be better out there, but I can't afford it and frankly I don't care. 

So what was the number 1 cable? The thread seems to have been lost like a Chinese whisper. Still very happy with my cables, in what i still think is a modest system in the Naim Audio hierarchy.

Don't offend the poor cable but calling names seems to be ok. 

And I probably deserves it but look at yourself now in the mirror, are you really better?

Im moving on...

//Jonas

Hi I tried speaker cable which was better.... all round ... I then tried 272 to 250dr cable....I struggled to perceive any significant benefit....I found the Witch hat cable very good. 

It all seems very strange, Jonas' categoric assertion that there are 2 better cables, a very precise assessment, but then not declaring specifically what the second of the two is, and apparently without consideration for their performance in the specific system in question. Even now none of us are any wiser as to what Jonas considers to be the two cables better than SL. 

Whilst it might be that there is a possible alternative explanation than stupidity and ignorance suggested by someone, it is hard to see what that might be - it clearly wasn't intended to make the OP feel content. 

It became quite clear that Jonas thinks Chord Music is no. 1 and Sarum T no. 2

i've never really found Chord cables satisfying in the past and don't trust their ears, but haven't heard either of these...

Michael_B. posted:

It became quite clear that Jonas thinks Chord Music is no. 1 and Sarum T no. 2

i've never really found Chord cables satisfying in the past and don't trust their ears, but haven't heard either of these...

Congrats on your new Cable, Rich!  Full Active Loom.

As INNOCENT has pointed out in the past, the age-old question. 

{ALLANTE93 MEMBER

10/31/16 10:19 AM

Innocent Bystander posted:

Ah, the age-old interesting question: do cables really change with time, or is it people getting used to something that maybe sounds different, either learning to like it, even if it sounds worse, or justifying the expenditure, regardless of whether the difference is neutral or negative……}

How about a trip down memory lane:

{{{CHRIS WEST TRADE MEMBER
12/14/12 9:40 AM
Originally Posted by Mike-B:
Originally Posted by Ron Toolsie:

People spend thousands on wires with the aim of making them have no impact on the sound. As if to make them sonically vanish. Julian used his noodle and made it happen from day one of Naim amp design by integrating a well defined and inexpensive wire into the amps circuit! Neatly removing speaker wires as an sonically indeterminate after thought ... 
 
Using different spec wires or using shorter lengths on a Naim amp, is like opening a non-naim amp and experimenting with changing or removing circuit components. Not recommended!     Now, Full Loom Active SL Speaker Cable
 
 
Chris
AV Options

RON TOOLSIE MEMBER
1/21/17 10:47 PM

The Snaic that feeds the digital/logic part of a preamp makes a tremendous difference to the performance of the (2)52 and 552. But 'upgrading' within the product line of a single compatible Snaic is really not an option, unless you are using a very old gray Snaic, or are willing to pursue the tweakery of a deep cryo'd one that is available from a sanctioned source. Neither of which lessens the fact that it is as least as important as the interconnects from the Supercap/552PS to the power amps-which have a much wider choices. “" Chord Music 

RICHARD DANE ADMINISTRATOR
9/10/16 1:56 PM 
Aric,  not the SNAIC, AFAIK it never got beyond the work on the XLR-DIN lead.  If it didn't work here, no point in trying to develop it as a SNAIC.

The last big change with the SNAIC came with the change of color from grey to black, the latter bringing considerable sonic benefits over the former.  No such Reptile, as SL SNAIC }}}

 
In any event, Perhaps the only Reptile that can adapt to the Naim's ecosystem, is the King Snaic.

That being said, the Reptiles that belong to the SL Family, can only perform at it's best in a familiar environment.

That being the Full Loom!  Congrats OP!!!!!

Loom River, drifting from Statement Hills!

 And more importantly, as my Father use to say, If you like it, I love it! 

Enjoy your Music, The Why! 

Allante93!

Well, I've just bought a pair of SL speaker cables - I'm inspired by a friend's Facebook post today to listen first to Terry Riley's 'A Rainbow In Curved Air'. I hadn't realised till today there was some accompanying prose.

Will update later...

It is nice to hear a report results of an upgrade from a happy customer. I personally like the SL cable set in context of a Naim system - my own  in particular in the strange effect of feeling deeply satisfied with the rightness of the end-result.

I'm sure it is not 'perfect' and that a greater financial outlay may deliver even more, but this does not bring me despair, but rather encouragement that there may be more to be had if I ever feel inclined to explore.

My only experiment of recent years was with the then much talked-about and vaunted Chort Tuned-array interconnect - I obtained a sample to compare against my then Naim superline cable and 'dissapointed' does not describe what I heard. A flat un-dynamic sound with weird unnatural imaging effect. It was certainly interesting but the superline blew it away in terms of natural dynamics and sense of ease.

I've considered that people listen to things differently and what is obviously better for me is not so for another. I've been rather cautious about the claims made by certain cables ever since - happy to hear it in a demo and if really significantly better at what is important for me - hearing more music and less HiFi and the price is possible, then it is a consideration.

But even then I'd never assume that because I like it then it is better for everyone.

DB.

Darke Bear posted:

 

My only experiment of recent years was with the then much talked-about and vaunted Chort Tuned-array interconnect - I obtained a sample to compare against my then Naim superline cable and 'dissapointed' does not describe what I heard. A flat un-dynamic sound with weird unnatural imaging effect. It was certainly interesting but the superline blew it away in terms of natural dynamics and sense of ease.

I've considered that people listen to things differently and what is obviously better for me is not so for another. I've been rather cautious about the claims made by certain cables ever since - happy to hear it in a demo and if really significantly better at what is important for me - hearing more music and less HiFi and the price is possible, then it is a consideration.

But even then I'd never assume that because I like it then it is better for everyone.

DB.

I think you mean HiLine, rather than superline (sic) DB? Anyway, a surprising result, given that I had a completely opposite experience when comparing Super Lumina interconnect to Super Sarum. I'll be charitable and just state that the SL didn't work in my system, and it wasn't just my pair of ears that told me so. Given that we both enjoy the sound of an active Naim system, the fact we use different sources I believe is a significant factor, and it's clear to me the SL performs well in Naim-only set ups, maybe not so well when other manufacturer's sources and amplification are part of a system.

Anyway, the important thing is to try the options in one's own system, but you can only try so many. Most of us try the obvious contender, discover it sounds better, and buy that one. And why not? I've no doubt the Chord Music cable is something special. Which is why I shall not be trying it in my system.

It is source dependent. I have both a SL din/din and Chord TA. The SL cable sounds better than the Chord with the NDS and the CD555 I had previously. The Chord sounded dull in comparison.

However, the Chord sounds better than the SL when using an HDX as source. The main reason is that the HDX exhibits a slightly sharp treble on some music and the Chord cable provides a much smoother presentation, very similar to a CDS3 whereas the SL emphasised the sharpness.

So horses for courses as it were.

thanks for posting Jonn. I do have some questions about the purpose of Sarum cable, if it is able to make the HDX sound better, and make NDS sound worse. A cable should really pass the signal without altering it?

On the other hand the Sarum cable for an HDX is then considerably cheaper than XPS DR.

Yes Tony - HiLine - so so long ago for my aging brain.

I've no doubt that others get positive results with things I hear as worse as I said. When I read a thread of people that praise something that when I try sounds flat as a pancake I do not go onto that thread an call them all deluded fools and lairs, but perhaps report, as you have done, that I perceived something different and made a different call. I've always considered this forum and the threads therein to be a discussion of different views and perspectives - which I love to read - rather than some device to force a consensus of a single truth for all.

The SL cables were primarily developed for the Statement  range of equipment and found to work well on the Reference and other ranges as well - but one thing the Statement range has is a lot of bass power, weight and detail, together with a beautifully refined high-frequency end with absolutely no harshness, so the new SL cables were to complement this sonic character. Anything that accentuated the bass or over-smoothed the HF detail would not work right for the Statement range.

The SL cables can therefore have a rather leaner sonic signature with some other equipment - but I've experienced that this runs-in and fills-out to a fuller sound after an initial over-lean sound. The new DR of the NAP500 definitely goes a long way towards the Statement 'sound' of a perceived more fulsome power in the bass that the SLCables rather gel with nicely. As I've before said, I think the the SL speaker leads never had this lean quality that the other SL interconnects had and complement the full-loom well.

I'm very much a fan of trying things as a system and deciding on the overall end result, be it Naim cables, Chord or others.

DB.

analogmusic posted:

thanks for posting Jonn. I do have some questions about the purpose of Sarum cable, if it is able to make the HDX sound better, and make NDS sound worse. A cable should really pass the signal without altering it?

On the other hand the Sarum cable for an HDX is then considerably cheaper than XPS DR.

Good question, cables do sound different so signals are being altered (or less altered?) depending on the cable design. But as ears will be different according to age etc it is not surprising that there are individual preferences and there is no universal "better or worse."

For me in my system after dems and home loans of a pair of DIN-XLRs I prefered the Naim SL over Chord STA but I prefered the Chord Music over the Naim SL. So I wonder what I would find with the new Chord T if I were to try?

Well, I'm of the provisional view that SL speaker cables are rather fine...