Will it be too late to have a nDAC?

As already mentioned before absolutely go for it. With the latest software upgrade the NDAC got to new levels of performance. It will raise the performance of your stack significantly,,,,

Adam Zielinski posted:

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

If you buy it be sure it is on the current firmware 4.18

This is irrelevant.
An upgrade can be done at home - the latest firmware is available from the NAIM website. The whole update process takes few minutes - the longest part is 'decoding' which firmware is being used Exactly and you have to know how to do that and that you have to do it, so your anser kind of contradicts itself.

Claus

Adam Zielinski posted:

Isn't it quite amazing that the OP asks if a second-hand nDAC is a good proposal to connect the TWO sources he has and inevitably Chord Hugo is suggested, which can only accept one connection (I discount optical, because NAIM sources sound far better via BNC)?

The only DAC from the Chord stable which would seem to accept two sources via BNC / Coax is the DAVE - but that's a somewhat a pricier option than the Hugo.

 

 

Suggesting something the OP might not have considered but which might be better (only he can decide) seems quite helpful to me -we don't all have the benefit of awareness of all possibilities when thinking of possible upgrades, and I wish I had been more aware of alternatives when I bought an ND5XS and later added the XP5XS. For clarity re Hugo as a possible alternative, it is worth noting that it has optical, spdif and usb inputs (one of each), so cd5 and nd5 can go to sddif and optical respectively, whichever way round they sound best if there is a difference. The required 50Ω BNC to RCA converter cables are readily available and need not be expensive. As for whether Naim sources sound better via spdif, is that true into Hugo, as opposed to into nDAC? Or is it that Naim DACs sound better via spdif inputs rather than optical? (I ask because I don't know)

Sloop John B posted:

An opposing view, from an ex-owner of a n-DAC. 

£1100 is too much to pay and in reality it does need a PS to "really sing". 

I bought mine for £1000 about 3 years ago and sold it for £1000 about a year ago. For me a Hugo TT sounds better than the n-DAC/XPS2. 

You are really limiting yourself if you don't get a DAC that can accepts asynchronous USB. 

At £800 it may be worth a chance, not £1100, not now, when Hugo 2 is on the way. DACs (whether Chord or others) are improving more than any other piece of hifi as they get more computing power, don't hobble your system with  8 year old technology. 

.sjb

+1. 

Chord Mojo is very good too and not very far from Hugo in performance. Yes it can only accept one source at a time, but that isn't a big issue, as I would just rip the CD 'swith DBpoweramp and use the streamer.

You can then use the HCDR on the SN.... that is what I would do anyway.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

If you buy it be sure it is on the current firmware 4.18

This is irrelevant.
An upgrade can be done at home - the latest firmware is available from the NAIM website. The whole update process takes few minutes - the longest part is 'decoding' which firmware is being used Exactly and you have to know how to do that and that you have to do it, so your anser kind of contradicts itself.

Claus

Claus - which part is contradictory to you? The Naim is very clear in its nDAC upgrade manual.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Isn't it quite amazing that the OP asks if a second-hand nDAC is a good proposal to connect the TWO sources he has and inevitably Chord Hugo is suggested, which can only accept one connection (I discount optical, because NAIM sources sound far better via BNC)?

The only DAC from the Chord stable which would seem to accept two sources via BNC / Coax is the DAVE - but that's a somewhat a pricier option than the Hugo.

 

 

For an nDAC + 555PS ( used ) he can go and buy 4-5 hugo  and why discount optical...

common Adam, nDAC + 555PS is a very hard to sell proposition, only a Naim affacinado like your self will buy it these days...

analogmusic posted:

Sloop John B posted:

An opposing view, from an ex-owner of a n-DAC. 

£1100 is too much to pay and in reality it does need a PS to "really sing". 

I bought mine for £1000 about 3 years ago and sold it for £1000 about a year ago. For me a Hugo TT sounds better than the n-DAC/XPS2. 

You are really limiting yourself if you don't get a DAC that can accepts asynchronous USB. 

At £800 it may be worth a chance, not £1100, not now, when Hugo 2 is on the way. DACs (whether Chord or others) are improving more than any other piece of hifi as they get more computing power, don't hobble your system with  8 year old technology. 

.sjb

+1. 

Chord Mojo is very good too and not very far from Hugo in performance. Yes it can only accept one source at a time, but that isn't a big issue, as I would just rip the CD 'swith DBpoweramp and use the streamer.

You can then use the HCDR on the SN.... that is what I would do anyway.

+1 to ripping CDs - once done, so much easier, the discs can be put away in the attic saving space, and then only one device to consider for future upgrades. And as playing the ripped file dies not need error correction algorithms while playing, with exrapolations etc in the event of any misread, it actually has the potential to sound better...

Emre posted

For an nDAC + 555PS ( used ) he can go and buy 4-5 hugo  and why discount optical...

common Adam, nDAC + 555PS is a very hard to sell proposition, only a Naim affacinado like your self will buy it these days...

 

 

Hi Emre - if you read my post above, I recommended to start with a bare nDAC.So please don't accuse me of something I have not written or suggested.

As to 'discounting optical' - I wrote this from experience. I tend to recommend and explain solutions I have either tried and tested myself or heard in well-set up NAIM systems.

I'm using my nDac happily for many years now, in the beginning without external power supply and I'm tremendously happy with the music it makes - with or without ps. A ps is a nice update, but I would not say it's mandatory as the character of the bare nDac is already very engaging and musical to me.

I did not compare the nDac to other dacs that are en vogue on this forum, why should I? I like the Naim signature sound and I like the flexibility of the nDac and I like the aesthetics of the Naim black boxes, their simplicity.

So I would recommend to go for the used nDac

Adam Zielinski posted:

Emre posted

For an nDAC + 555PS ( used ) he can go and buy 4-5 hugo  and why discount optical...

common Adam, nDAC + 555PS is a very hard to sell proposition, only a Naim affacinado like your self will buy it these days...

 

 

Hi Emre - if you read my post above, I recommended to start with a bare nDAC.So please don't accuse me of something I have not written or suggested.

As to 'discounting optical' - I wrote this from experience. I tend to recommend and explain solutions I have either tried and tested myself or heard in well-set up NAIM systems.

i am sure that you were dying to recommend it  

i have the opportunity to compare cd5x with hicap vs cd5x with ndac. I found the first combination more natural and musical. For 400/500 pounds you can buy a second hand hicap.

Just not forgot this alternative to upgrade cd5x and nd5x: two hicap for the both, or ndac for the same money.

Keler Pierre posted:

i have the opportunity to compare cd5x with hicap vs cd5x with ndac. I found the first combination more natural and musical. For 400/500 pounds you can buy a second hand hicap.

Just not forgot this alternative to upgrade cd5x and nd5x: two hicap for the both, or ndac for the same money.

 

In fact I prefer Flatcap on CD5 players even its mostly air inside cabinet

Hicaps are forced sort of (no experience with DR) while FC makes the music flow better imo

Hicaps are much better upgrades on pre or amplifiers, all imo

As for nDac on cd5xs so much wasted electronics in the player, Naim should have launched a cd transport back then

I would strongly consider the Hugo instead - you have the cd5xs and nd5xs that can capture the Naim sound - which we all enjoy - but some music that gets "left behind" may well be better served with a different approach (ie a dac from a different company).  I would keep the cd5xs bare (or add a flatcap xs) and let the dac sit on just the nd5xs.

Keler Pierre posted:

to upgrade cd5x and nd5x: two hicap for the both, 

 

Don't think you can put a Hicap on ND5XS

Keler Pierre posted:

i have the opportunity to compare cd5x with hicap vs cd5x with ndac. I found the first combination more natural and musical. For 400/500 pounds you can buy a second hand hicap.

Just not forgot this alternative to upgrade cd5x and nd5x: two hicap for the both, or ndac for the same money.

 

ND5XS cannot be upgraded with a HiCap - only XP-style or 555PS style power supplies can be used with ND-series streamers.

b_lund posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

i have the opportunity to compare cd5x with hicap vs cd5x with ndac. I found the first combination more natural and musical. For 400/500 pounds you can buy a second hand hicap.

Just not forgot this alternative to upgrade cd5x and nd5x: two hicap for the both, or ndac for the same money.

 

In fact I prefer Flatcap on CD5 players even its mostly air inside cabinet

Hicaps are forced sort of (no experience with DR) while FC makes the music flow better imo

Hicaps are much better upgrades on pre or amplifiers, all imo

As for nDac on cd5xs so much wasted electronics in the player, Naim should have launched a cd transport back then

i agree with you.

Gavin B posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

to upgrade cd5x and nd5x: two hicap for the both, 

 

Don't think you can put a Hicap on ND5XS

you can't?  an xps so, but even used it is more expensive. so just for a cdx5 or perhaps an xps1

Hi Jeff,

you already have a ton of suggestions and perhaps unsurprisingly many contradictions. While I have my own opinion on the nDAC, let me ask you something:

Are both the CD and ND equally important sources for you?

If this is the case, getting the nDAC is the only way to improve both. You get a better D/A converter and the ability to move the HCDR to your Supernait.

If one of the sources gets a lot more mileage, why not upgrade to either CDX2 or NDX?

Keler Pierre posted:

i have the opportunity to compare cd5x with hicap vs cd5x with ndac. I found the first combination more natural and musical. For 400/500 pounds you can buy a second hand hicap.

Interesting Pierre. Most will find Hi-Cap aggressive and projecting on the XS series and would favor the FlatCap that was originally designed for them for a more airy and relaxed presentation. I went from CD5 XS/FC2x to CD5 XS/nDAC on 122X/FC2x/150x before moving to 252/250.2. I never looked back. 

Chag -

Thanks all

yes actually both cd5/nd5 are equallly impaotant to me. Time to deal with the seller ...!!

b_lund posted:

In fact I prefer Flatcap on CD5 players even its mostly air inside cabinet

This is why the FlatCap presentation is so airy and relaxed on the XS series..

Chag -

I'm not surprised that so many have suggested and defended the Hugo. I've never listened to it but have heard alot of good things (and bad things) about it. I would have tried it if didn't need my nDAC for my bluray, PS4, SB touch and TV.

The Naim signature, multi input and the ability to switch to any input via remote is very important to me.

Of course it sounds good. If there is an nDAC2 in development, it needs to be very very good to beat the nDAC.

It will be since at Statement, but then at different price level.  In the meantime, and in any case, nDAC is still a bargain. It may not have been too late to have a nDAC at OP time, but it might now be too late to have it at less than £1100 by the time we are done arguing.

Chag -

You would have to hear Hugo for yourself to know if you'd prefer its sound -however it can't compete re number of inputs younneed. The Hugo TT has more inputs, and remote selectable , but I'm not sure even that has as many inputs as you need. (That I don't undersrptand the benefit of a better DAC on things like TV and PS is beside the point - even just ND5, CD and Bluray exceed Hugo's inputs.) BTW, what is the benefit of SBT if you have ND5? (i ask, not knowing what else SBT offers)

Chag... posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

i have the opportunity to compare cd5x with hicap vs cd5x with ndac. I found the first combination more natural and musical. For 400/500 pounds you can buy a second hand hicap.

Interesting Pierre. Most will find Hi-Cap aggressive and projecting on the XS series and would favor the FlatCap that was originally designed for them for a more airy and relaxed presentation. I went from CD5 XS/FC2x to CD5 XS/nDAC on 122X/FC2x/150x before moving to 252/250.2. I never looked back. 

Chag -

i was referring to cd5x, not cd5xs. I moved from a cd5x/ flatcap to a cd5x/ hicap then cdx2 then cdx2/xps2. I preferred the cd5x/hicap vs cd5x/ftatcap and even, on some points, preferred cd5x/hicap to cdx2 alone. But cdx2/xps2 was my favorite. Now i have an nds/555dr, and in general i think it is better vs cdx2/xps2. But sometimes i missed him, for his sense of involvement and immediacy on some tracks.