282 with two Hi-caps?

KTMax posted:

Out of curiosity and as a possible future upgrade question. 

I have a 282 with one HC (non DR) and I wonder how substantial the addition of a 2nd HC is? I'm also curious what a second HC actually powers compared to a one HC setup?

I know a Supercap might be even better than two HCs but the SC is too expensive for me. 

Tnx for any views and feedback!

Richard

I wouldn't bother. I've tried 2HiCaps (nonDR) on a 282 and in my view it offers no significant improvement. Putting one on the Stageline and one on the 282 was the best configuration. Not relevant in your case/system. Unfortunately, yes the Supercap is the best option.

Regarding what two HiCaps power to my mind has never been satisfactorily answered. Some say two power L&R outputs and therefore a matched pair is best. I not convinced this is the case. Best ask Naim customer services.

SheffieldGraham is right. You'll need a Supercap to make a significant improvement, and the SC on a 282 is superb. Have you thought about a second hand one? I used a non-DR Supercap on my 282 for some years and thoroughly enjoyed it. You might be able to pick up a SH one of those for not much more than a new HCDR.  

Yes, agree with all above. In my experience the addition of the 2nd HiCap was pointless. You need a SCAP to appreciate any lift over a single HICAP.

G

MDS posted:

SheffieldGraham is right. You'll need a Supercap to make a significant improvement, and the SC on a 282 is superb. Have you thought about a second hand one? I used a non-DR Supercap on my 282 for some years and thoroughly enjoyed it. You might be able to pick up a SH one of those for not much more than a new HCDR.  

I agree re. the Supercap ; Or forget about buying a second HiCap and trade in the NAP200 for a used NAP250. 

sheffieldgraham posted:

Regarding what two HiCaps power to my mind has never been satisfactorily answered. Some say two power L&R outputs and therefore a matched pair is best. I not convinced this is the case. Best ask Naim customer services.

Search on the forum confirms what is powered from our very own Richard Dane, its the separation of the left and right channels.. albeit at the slight disadvantage you break the pure star ground. You also need to ensure both HiCaps are matched in terms of age.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...03#16631269505682103

A used Olive SuperCap non DR is around about the 1000 pound mark and you could get 400 for your HiCap, this is exactly what I intend to do and I have the same amp as you 282/HC/200.

I do not agree. I went from 1 to 2 HC's (non DR) and found it to be very worthwhile for what it cost (similar to a mid price interconnect). More sparkle and gain. It wasn't night and day but there was no mistaking it. I always wonder why there is so much support for 2 555PS's on the forum (particularly when you consider what your extra £5k is actually powering) but not the HC. My experience of the Naim upgrade path is that it delivers. For what it is worth I then went to a SCDR and clearly it was better - but the 282 was soon replaced by a 252 which was also clearly better (though others disagree).

Tnx all.

I kinda figured and expected the SCap advise. Makes sense. 

I will look into a possible 200 > 250 upgrade. I've never been a fan of the 'old' 250. When I bought my current gear I clearly prefered the sound of the 200 over the 250. As was the case before that with the preceding olive stack between the 180 and 250. Somehow I've found the 250 always too dark and slow sounding. 

But from what I hear and read things have changed considerably with the arrival of the 250 DR so I guess a re-audition is in order. 

Richard

I agree with Alan. Although it's a long time ago now, and on an 82, going from one to two HC was both significant and cost effective. And yes, the SC is clearly better than 2*Hc, but climbing the ladder is part of the fun. My 82 was succeeded by a 52, and then a 552, which I have had for about 15 years. Can't afford a Statement, alas.

KTMAX,

I think the old 250 was speaker fussy.   I was never convinced of its virtues with my old Dynaudios and similarly reverted to the 200.   But when I heard it with Neat XL6s I thought it excellent.  

However, the 250dr as has been reported many times is a true game changer. 

In the short term if I were you I'd get your HC dr'd.  When we decorate our lounge later this year both mine (one powers my Superline) and my XPS are heading off to Salisbury for the treatment!

Regards,

Lindsay

Tnx Lindsay. 

Is the upgrade to DR spec for a HCap that significant?

I kinda figured to do that when my gear is up for service, 3/4 years from now. But if the improvement is big ernough, your suggestion sounds like a good idea.

Richard

My only real experience of a DR upgrade was when I traded in my XPS2 for an XPSDR (on my CDX2) and I was amazed at the difference. A few years earlier I had toyed with an update to a 555 (pre DR days) and I was not sold so did not proceed - but no such doubts with the XPS DR - I was reaching for my credit card in the first five minutes. I reckon the DR upgrade to the HC - however you do it - will be well worthwhile.

282 with 1 HiCap good  -  2 HiCaps excellent   - 1 SuperCap outstanding !!!!

I found adding a second Hicap to an 82 made virtually no difference. If this was my system, I'd have the Hicap DRed, or trade it for a DR version, and get a 250DR. The bigger amp will give those speakers a lot more oompf.

I'd get the second hicap only if in use with a dedicated phono.

Otherwise Supercap, no doubt.

Anyway you don't say which power amp is in use, if 180/200 then 250 is the answer before anything.

Also, hicap DR is much better than older units.

This topic has been discussed so many times on the forum with, if I recall correctly, no resolution from people who have actually owned both as to which is "better".  Search the forum and review these posts.

Before I bought my 252, I used my 82 with 2 hicaps for a short while. Likes others I found that was an improvement, and cheap since I bought a used hicap. At that time I used a tuner and a cd as sources.

Claus

I suspect the benefit you would get depends rather a lot on how good your front end is - and if it's a 'vinyl-player', how well that player is set up and installed. I've operated an 82 with all the usual power supply arrangements: power amp psu, HiCap, then two HiCaps and finally a second hand olive Supercap. I can tell you that adding a second HiCap adds more weight to the sound on both 'line' and 'phono'. I can also say that I'm getting the best results with the Supercap - but it's really hard to compare this properly with 2x HiCaps because items were well beyond their service intervals and there were some 'issues' with my LP 12. Something that  you would do well to consider is that with 2x HiCaps, compared to a Supercap, you've an additional transformer to keep out of harm's way. In my system I've found it beneficial to keep the 82 and Supercap 'apart' (nothing new here), and also to keep the Supercap on it's own, unshared, double wall socket. Doing otherwise makes it sound quite 'dirty'.

I preferred 2 HiCaps to a SuperCap (non DR).

Henrik

With an 82, 1 HC good, 2 HC OK , 1 SC super.

I had most combos. 282 w supercap was amazing. Try sc secondhand. Way better than hc, which is not bad, but man 282/sc jams, br lars

Antonio1 posted:

Anyway you don't say which power amp is in use, if 180/200 then 250 is the answer before anything.

 

I think I did. Including my view on the pre DR 250. 

Mr. Jensen posted:

I preferred 2 HiCaps to a SuperCap (non DR).

Henrik

 

 

That's very dfferent from the common opinion Henrik... why do you prefer two HCs over a SCap?

I added a second Hicap when I had an 82, and I thought it gave a substantial improvement in both clarity and fullness of sound. BUT, I had dedicated mains and everything was on Fraim. I think these things are often overlooked in the quest to upgrade black boxes. Just some food for thought...

BB

Monster posted:

BUT, I had dedicated mains and everything was on Fraim. I think these things are often overlooked in the quest to upgrade black boxes. Just some food for thought...

BB

Oh yes, boy do I second that!!

Especially mains is the most underestimated aspect among audiophiles imo.