Sopra 2

greekspec2 posted:

if I were you I would place the speakers apart between 9ft-8.5ft on the inner side and min 17in to 19in from the back wall with the spikes fully extended with 5-10 degrees of toe to start.....then fine adjust from there

when I had my Sopra No2 I liked the NAP 250DR on them better than the NAP 300DR.....

That's the bit that doesn't quite conform - about 12 feet, because it has to be owing to it being a sitting room, SWMBO etc.. But, I've tried sitting 9 feet and 10 feet from the speakers and it makes no difference to this particular issue. 

Greekspec2 - why did you part company with your Sopras and with what did you replace them? If I may ask..

eagle3333 posted:

Greekspec2 - why did you part company with your Sopras and with what did you replace them? If I may ask..

I replaced them with Sopra No3 which have a completely different sound for the better, one of the reason I replaced the No2 was because I never liked there size stature the No3 fit the bill perfect looks more like a Utopia Maestro

Thank you. You know what I'm bound to ask - could you describe the sound differences?

eagle3333 posted:

Thank you. You know what I'm bound to ask - could you describe the sound differences?

I'm not good on describing that kind of stuff  but without pissing on anyone's parade I would never go back to the No2 they never fully wowed me and have been a tad disappointed with them since the get....but when I heard the No3 were being released June 2016 I placed an order asap

Right-oh; I'm really only interested in how the treble end of things sounds compared to the 2's. Whether it's differently behaved. But since it's same tweeter I suspect not. 

eagle3333 posted:

Right-oh; I'm really only interested in how the treble end of things sounds compared to the 2's. Whether it's differently behaved. But since it's same tweeter I suspect not. 

I never had your issue with either loudspeaker....but I have different electronics and cables then you

The speakers are so good that they just produce what is delivered at the terminals. When I first had them the bass was much improved along with the mid range. 

I play a lot of vinyl. I judge the system using vinyl. With classical instrumental music, I hope to hear the true sound of each instrument. The instruments should be spatially separated and easy to hear rather than quiet (unless the piece as a whole is quite). The Chord interconnects (£400 - £800) made instruments like an oboe sound thin and lacking warmth. My £100 Rega Couples were bang on once I used the Isotek Optimum power cord. One should be able to hear intonation. In the past drums didn't sound like drums - they were rough and merged into a background of noise. Brightness takes all the character out of a piano and makes it difficult to judge the touch the pianist imparts to the notes. Watching some DVDs the base on sci-fi films is really low. I hear so much more from the tv as well.

The next thing is the hard to describe. You feel as though a singer is in the room with you or the sound has moved away from the speakers to fill the space. 

I don't yet get quite the same quality from CDs, but I'm working on it. 

Do I gather you have 3m of Super Lumina cable?

I know many things come into play with how speakers are reviewed by the press but there's a review in this month's Stereophile on the Sopra 3's. If anyone pays attention to this kind of thing, that were given a B rating in their recommended components issue(same issue).

On a different note, the new Dynaudio Contour 20 speakers are also reviewed in the same issue, they were given an A rating.

Just an FYI.

As I mentioned before in earlier posts, well before the Stereophile article, so no bias on my part, when I compared the Dynaudio 20 to the Sopra 1, (my dealer sells both brands) , which I believe has the same drivers as the Sopra 2 speakers,   I felt the Dyns showed them a very clean pair of heels. I would suggest the OP listen to the new Contour range if he is looking to replace his current speakers, or is not happy with their performance. Everybody hears things differently, so no promises, but my impression of the new Dynaudio Contour range are outstanding sounding speakers!!!!

Filipe, classical piano is something by which I judge whether my sound is as I want it to be. Martin Jacoby's rendition of Nocturne in B-flat Minor, Op.9, No.1 is my test. For me, the piano should sound warm and velvety; right now it has too much 'plink' which stops it soothing as it should do. I completely agree re: how this also masks the delicacy of the pianist's touch. It seems to me that the endless pursuit of detail can result in a clinical sound, initially exciting, but at the cost of warmth and ease of long term listening. Can we have both?  

Thanks Badlands, I'll keep this in mind if it comes to it. 

badlands posted:

I know many things come into play with how speakers are reviewed by the press but there's a review in this month's Stereophile on the Sopra 3's. If anyone pays attention to this kind of thing, that were given a B rating in their recommended components issue(same issue).

On a different note, the new Dynaudio Contour 20 speakers are also reviewed in the same issue, they were given an A rating.

Just an FYI.

As I mentioned before in earlier posts, well before the Stereophile article, so no bias on my part, when I compared the Dynaudio 20 to the Sopra 1, (my dealer sells both brands) , which I believe has the same drivers as the Sopra 2 speakers,   I felt the Dyns showed them a very clean pair of heels. I would suggest the OP listen to the new Contour range if he is looking to replace his current speakers, or is not happy with their performance. Everybody hears things differently, so no promises, but my impression of the new Dynaudio Contour range are outstanding sounding speakers!!!!

The Stereophile mag is similar to What hi mag is over here, about as good as a chocolate fire guard....

eagle3333 posted:

Filipe, classical piano is something by which I judge whether my sound is as I want it to be. Martin Jacoby's rendition of Nocturne in B-flat Minor, Op.9, No.1 is my test. For me, the piano should sound warm and velvety; right now it has too much 'plink' which stops it soothing as it should do. I completely agree re: how this also masks the delicacy of the pianist's touch. It seems to me that the endless pursuit of detail can result in a clinical sound, initially exciting, but at the cost of warmth and ease of long term listening. Can we have both?  

Thanks Badlands, I'll keep this in mind if it comes to it. 

Like you I go with ease of long term listening. The sound needs to connect with the emotions.

BTW, Focal suggest that the N2s take about 200 hour to reach the point that they sound good. My dealer says that loud is better than quiet for running in.

What HiFi was full of praise for them, for what it's worth. You should expect your dealer to help sort this out. 7m of NACA5 is often recommended. 

Phil

Focal tech support also told me at min 70cm from aside and back wall not sure if refering the No3 or Sopra line as a whole

eagle3333 posted:

Filipe, classical piano is something by which I judge whether my sound is as I want it to be. Martin Jacoby's rendition of Nocturne in B-flat Minor, Op.9, No.1 is my test. For me, the piano should sound warm and velvety; right now it has too much 'plink' which stops it soothing as it should do. I completely agree re: how this also masks the delicacy of the pianist's touch. It seems to me that the endless pursuit of detail can result in a clinical sound, initially exciting, but at the cost of warmth and ease of long term listening. Can we have both?  

Thanks Badlands, I'll keep this in mind if it comes to it. 

I hope you would be able to get the Sopra 2 sorted out. Brightness is something that's difficult to tackle especially if it's inherent in the speakers. Piano is a good test to evaluate the treble or high frequency extension of the speakers. If piano sounds thin or clinical you would know something is amiss and the culprit is usually the speakers other than the room and/or electronics or a combination of everything.

Your dilemma reminded me on my attempt to address the dull tone of the piano on my Harbeth loudspeakers earlier last year. Personally I would rather work on getting warmer speakers to sound more lively or extended than the other way round.

Areas you can look at to "warm" things up are warm sounding cables and having more absorption in the room, thick carpet and absorption panels on walls. Though too much of it may suck the life out of the music.

Good luck.

Thanks Ryder. My wooden floor is mostly covered by thick rugs and there's major treatment to corners, rear wall and first reflection side walls. 2 big sofas. My space is about 24' x 13', with kit on short wall. A cloud on the ceiling may help but it's a living room and that might be one set of panels too far.. I could add more picture panels to side walls but they're very expensive. Meantime, one set of copper cables my dealer sent over cured it completely - but at the cost of too much detail loss. This suggests the right cable might well 'fix' it.  

Hi Eagle3333

I'm glad you have found some change using different speaker cable. In my experience a HiFi system can be more/less than the sum of its parts. I experimented with the order in which the boxes are placed in the twin racks and the order the sockets plug in before moving on to power cords, IC and speaker cables. I'm currently on power cords, and ICs.

Like others on this forum I have the brain on one side and the brawn on the other. The Aria Phono stage is not even in the racks but behind on a stool. It's 2-3 feet away from the TT and Preamp. The Poweramp is below the Preamp with a 40cm gap filled with records. The three PSs are at the bottom of the other rack in order from bottom 300DR PS, SuperCap DR and XPS DR. The Rega TT PS is next then the nDAC and finally the CDX2. I have two 24cm shelves to raise the TTs up and out of reach of toddler grandchildren! The positioning can make a big difference, and indeed Naim recommend that source is kept away from PSs and the Power Amp.

The radial ends with 5 double unswitched sockets fed from top to bottom. 

1. 300DR PS and SuperCap DR

2. Empty

3. XPS DR and NAPSC

4. nDAC and CDX2.2

5. Rega Aria and TT PS

The 282 worked best with nothing near it. I'm not sure whether the PSs need more than the 14cm rack spacing (all spacings quoted include the 4cm thickness of the shelf).

When the box positioning is not right there is a noticeable difference in SQ. I'd say the music sounded as if it were wrapped in a quilt and was trying to get out. I accepted the 300DR  (and the Sopra) with the 300DR and it's PS on the floor, and the system sounded really good. The 300 boxes were away from the other boxes, but when the extra racks arrived my first arrangement sounded awful, and prompted the research etc. You will notice that the socket order matters and it seems best to keep source away from high current stuff and analogue further away than digital.

I started playing with power cords next. The first PL went on the SuperCap DR, and immediately added more bass etc. In fact at first the bass was too heavy and piano sounded very bright. Two or three days later when a second PL was added to the 300PS the heaviness went. The PL did nothing to the XPS + nDAC, however the Isotek Elite and better still the Optimum Made a noticeable SQ improvement. The Optimum went on the Aria phonostage first and even with modest Rega Couple 2 IC has removed distortion. I am thinking of returning the Loan PLs and going for 1m Isotek Optimums and Elites. The bass is now quite natural without it banging inside the head - it's just a different frequency rather than an effect enabling me to pick out the instruments and understand their contribution to the composition.

My take is that power cords are vital and should be chosen before ICs and speaker cable. I tried Chord ICs from £400-800 and they are not a scratch on the inexpensive Couple 2 once the Aria phonostage has the right power cord. The Chords actually took the emotion out of the music (they were supposed to be run in). I have a HiLine on loan for the nDAC, which is a good improvement.

You have Super Lumina on your speakers but have found the new cable (no name) your dealer has just supplied reduces the brightness at the expense of detail. I would recommend that given the quality of the SL you try to balance your system earlier than the speakers.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the big effort and info', Filipe. I'm pretty confident the system is well box-balanced upstream of the speakers/cable. My DAC is superior to the one in my NDX. The C2500/250DR combination is warmer with less glare than when it was partnered with 252/SCDR, as you'd expect from a valve pre'. The Mogami IC's are far superior in detail and balance than the Van den Hul Mountain IC's I tried and no worse than the SL IC I used previously. But, given the huge difference in sound reproduction I found between the VDH and Mogami, it's quite possible that different IC's could solve or help solve my problem in the same way as could different speaker cable. If the TQ Ultra Blue and Blue Diamond do what they says on the tin, then I'd be very interested in trying them out.