Mains cable.. seen the light????

Troll alert.

JRHardee posted:

Troll alert.

I'm not sure that's fair.
I too would be interested in exactly how, after many miles of cable, the final few feet can make such a difference.

In the UK, mains electricity is currently required by law to be delivered at 230 Volts, within a tolerance of +10% / –6%, that is, within the range 253 Volts to 216.2 Volts. The value of 230 Volts is said to be the ‘nominal voltage’ In an electrical system, ‘voltage’ is the equivalent of ‘pressure’ in a water system, (current being the equivalent of water flow rate).

When demand is high the voltage drops. Listening late in the evening is better because the voltage will be higher.

If it really is the voltage that makes the difference, then the answer is to use a 250V regenerator or to use an automatically controlled Variac.

Hmm, not so sure about that.

The frequency variation is limited to 1%. This link will show you the actual variation 

http://www2.nationalgrid.com/u.../frequency-response/

Phil

No one seems to be able to explain how these power cables increase sound quality? 

Filipe posted:

 Listening late in the evening is better because the voltage will be higher.

Citation please.

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

No one seems to be able to explain how these power cables increase sound quality? 

The link to the other topic I posted above does. 

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

OK.  So can either of you explain how your expensive cable is making a discernible difference to the sound quality of your system?

It is called A placebo

I've just had a quiet half an hour whilst my children have dinner at their grandparents. I decided to go back to the stock mains cables and remove the TQs from my system. They have been in use for almost a year now. The result was a slight loss in clarity, a narrowing of the soundstage and it just sounded less interesting to my ears. I'm not saying the stock wires are bad. They're not. But for me, the TQs are better. 

I suppose there will always be those who claim that 'better' mains cables can't make a difference because they cannot see or understand the 'how'.  I'm not too troubled by them. I just trust my ears.

That said, such a closed-mind or purist approach to life must be difficult at times.  For example, I don't understand how or why gravity works but my ignorance doesn't prevent me from being careful on step-ladders etc. Maybe that's witchcraft too.

KTMax posted:

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

No one seems to be able to explain how these power cables increase sound quality? 

The link to the other topic I posted above does. 

I'm sorry but I don't see any explanation in that thread? Perhaps you'd care to share the specific post you are referring to? 

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

KTMax posted:

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

No one seems to be able to explain how these power cables increase sound quality? 

The link to the other topic I posted above does. 

I'm sorry but I don't see any explanation in that thread? Perhaps you'd care to share the specific post you are referring to? 

Theres's always one isn't there !!! 

Typing 'power cables' in to a search function on this Forum returns many posts on this subject....

There is plenty of documented information regarding mains cables. The use of materials. Type of technology. Science of conductivity and impedance. Logic of having a coherent loom that share same electrical characteristics. But these are tied in with certain manufacturers and to provide links is against forum rules I believe. That Naim don't cover this themselves with a "white paper" that's open to read regarding powerline cables and the SLs  is really doing themeselves a disservice.

TOBYJUG posted:

There is plenty of documented information regarding mains cables. 

And yet still no one in this thread is willing to actually tell me how a mains cable improves sound quality. 

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

There is plenty of documented information regarding mains cables. 

And yet still no one in this thread is willing to actually tell me how a mains cable improves sound quality. 

A little hint - it's not only the question itself but how you ask it... 

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

There is plenty of documented information regarding mains cables. 

And yet still no one in this thread is willing to actually tell me how a mains cable improves sound quality. 

Who cares HOW it does,as long as it DOES,use your ears,if there is no difference to YOU,return it...oh,let me guess,do a double blind test with volume matched equipment...

Adam Zielinski posted:

Typing 'power cables' in to a search function on this Forum returns many posts on this subject....

That's great, but it still doesn't answer my question.  I'm sure there is a wealth of discussion, none of which back any of these claims up.

These type of threads really have to be the most pointless imaginable. There is no meaningful debate, just two totally intransigent camps. As there seems to be no physical evidence to substantiate the pro team's assertions of audible benefits (unlike gravity - ignorance doesn't negate the proofs of its existence), why can't the two sides simply agree to differ? I've personally tried the dedicated mains spur and found it made not one iota of difference to my system, but am quite prepared to believe it brings benefits to others. I personally can hear the sonic differences between Chord Epic and NACA5, and prefer the former, but accept many others hold the opposite opinion. There is no right or wrong, except when people assert theirs is the only 'right' opinion, which simply exposes them as closed minded and intolerant. 

Let's get back to the music!!

Tim

Huge posted:

If it really is the voltage that makes the difference, then the answer is to use a 250V regenerator or to use an automatically controlled Variac.

Hmm, not so sure about that.

The power dissipated by a resistor (R) with a voltage drop of V across it's terminals is V**2/R. By dropping the voltage the national grid slows down the rate at which power is drawn because it does not have sufficient for economic generation. A 10% drop in voltage reduces the power dissipation in our kettles by 19%. Similarly, frequency.

It may not directly affect the issue of power cables, but power supplies are dealing with constantly changing mains conditions as they try to create a constant accurately regulated voltage. Ultimately if a circuit demands more current than the power supply can deliver, the characteristic amplified wave form the circuit is trying to produce will distort. DR regulation attempts to improve voltage stabilisation, but if the mains is under stress there will be a loss of SQ. 

No mains cable = no music. Unfortunately an unavoidable reality.

Filipe posted:

Huge posted:

If it really is the voltage that makes the difference, then the answer is to use a 250V regenerator or to use an automatically controlled Variac.

Hmm, not so sure about that.

The power dissipated by a resistor (R) with a voltage drop of V across it's terminals is V**2/R. By dropping the voltage the national grid slows down the rate at which power is drawn because it does not have sufficient for economic generation. A 10% drop in voltage reduces the power dissipation in our kettles by 19%. Similarly, frequency.

It may not directly affect the issue of power cables, but power supplies are dealing with constantly changing mains conditions as they try to create a constant accurately regulated voltage. Ultimately if a circuit demands more current than the power supply can deliver, the characteristic amplified wave form the circuit is trying to produce will distorted. DR regulation attempts to improve voltage stabilisation, but if the mains is under stress there will be a loss of SQ. 

Fascinating, but what relevance does this have to the OP? 

I don't think anyone has an irrefutable proven reason why Mrs WLDC,  there is a lot of 'theory' & more,  but nothing like you (& many others) are looking for.     I'm an electrical engineer & I don't have a conviction one way or other.  IMO it's all subjective & a heavy dose of marketplace rumour & myth.  I am prepared to live with that if it sounds better,  it sounds better.  If not then a good reason to not bother.   

Timmo1341 posted:

These type of threads really have to be the most pointless imaginable. There is no meaningful debate, just two totally intransigent camps. As there seems to be no physical evidence to substantiate the pro team's assertions of audible benefits (unlike gravity - ignorance doesn't negate the proofs of its existence), why can't the two sides simply agree to differ? I've personally tried the dedicated mains spur and found it made not one iota of difference to my system, but am quite prepared to believe it brings benefits to others. I personally can hear the sonic differences between Chord Epic and NACA5, and prefer the former, but accept many others hold the opposite opinion. There is no right or wrong, except when people assert theirs is the only 'right' opinion, which simply exposes them as closed minded and intolerant. 

Let's get back to the music!!

Tim

I agree Timmo with regards to a pointless debate,but with regards to the no physical evidence to substantiate it,let's say you take a $28,000.00 pair of Raidho D1's,and compare them to a pair of Paradigm entry level monitors...on paper they might have the same specs,but I can guarantee you that that Raidho's sound better,with no real evidence on paper to explain why.I am not trying to fuel the debate,just giving an example.